x1800 Available in AGP

konai_konai666 · 14-November-05, 09:56 AM

Looks like I might actually be selling this x850XT PE sooner than I first thought.. Looks like the x1800 AGP is coming, -again!..

godling · 14-November-05, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by konai_konai666


	Looks like I might actually be selling this x850XT PE sooner than I first thought.. Looks like the x1800 AGP is coming, -again!..

woo-hoo!

Why upgrade to a PCI-e system when graphics card vendors keep making our lives simple? (Yes expensive ...)

-godling

Nerdz · 14-November-05, 02:03 PM

Wouldnt it be bottlenecked by AGP's bandwidth?

$SOLID$ Necro · 14-November-05, 02:15 PM

No..even 8x AGP was never fully used by previous generations of cards, this X-1800 may be getting a bit closer to the limit, but I'm sure they wouldn't have bothered with AGP if it realy held back the performance of there flagship card!

the _klamper · 14-November-05, 02:37 PM

most games used up to 4x bandwidth .... never even came close to using the 8x ..... so in a good system there is no visible performance diff.

Nerdz · 14-November-05, 02:43 PM

So why the hell did we go to PCI express? Could we have done SLI with AGP?

godling · 14-November-05, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerdz


	So why the hell did we go to PCI express? Could we have done SLI with AGP?

Absolutely! The original SLI interface (see VoodooII cards of yore) was done on (normal) PCI slots before AGP even came out.

-godling

konai_konai666 · 14-November-05, 06:35 PM

Don't forget that there was a dual-AGP system before nVidia's SLI, too..

Cpt.Planet · 14-November-05, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerdz


	So why the hell did we go to PCI express? Could we have done SLI with AGP?

Yes but PCI-E offers more bandwidth. SLI on AGP would have worked but PCI-E has more bandwidth to play with. Currently sli uses two PCI-E 16x slots running each at 8x. In the future there are going to be more boards with two 16x PCI-E slots that can have both cards at 16x which means more bandwidth. The crossfire chips and the nvidia chips that are being worked on right now will get ride of the need for the sli bridge and dvi connector for crossfire due to the extra bandwidth that will be available with two 16x slots running at 16x simultaneously. **Note with the latest Nvidia drivers SLI is able to be run without the sli bridge but it also does take away from some of the bandwidth. Which means when runnning a bench or game like 3D Mark 05 you will get a couple hundred points less or a couple FPS less because of the extra bandwidth used by using SLI without the SLI bridge.**

Nerdz · 14-November-05, 09:51 PM

So wait your saying is because of that little card connector thing that connects the 2 card together only allows the cards to work at 8X each rather than 16X Alone?

But wouldnt 1 Card running at 16X be better than running 2 at 8X each?

Cpt.Planet · 14-November-05, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerdz


	So wait your saying is because of that little card connector thing that connects the 2 card together only allows the cards to work at 8X each rather than 16X Alone? But wouldnt 1 Card running at 16X be better than running 2 at 8X each?

No the chipset limits the cards to runnint at 8x. No because the cards currently dont use all of the 8x bandwith but with the next gen of motherboard chipsets (ATI and Nvidia) will allow both cards to run at a full 16x at the same time and doing this will give it enough bandwith to get ride of the sli connector without hurting performance as well as getting rid of ATIs little dongle for crossfire.

j-dogg · 14-November-05, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by konai_konai666


	Don't forget that there was a dual-AGP system before nVidia's SLI, too..

I must see this. AGP was never designed for multiple GPU's. This is why every dual-GPU AGP card has blown balls. there were more than one built, and not just from 3dfx. see XGI Volari V8.

Ace123 · 21-November-05, 10:40 AM

I hate to break this to ya guys. this has been gone over on so many forums its not funny. It seems like the agp version of this card was a webmasters screw up on the diamond site.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/d...117122745.html

Ace123 · 21-November-05, 10:55 AM

*double post*
They DO have a poll on their homepage regarding the use of AGP flavour 1800s and 7800s. If we all truley want this card (Im indifferent) then I suggest you make your voice heard somewhere. Or maybe we could start some kind of movment hear at pimprig urging a manufacturer to creat a new agp version.
all it takes is the pcie-agp bridge already being used on the x800xl and x800gto.
Hope is not lost, we all just have to work for it.

THRiLL KiLL · 21-November-05, 12:44 PM

what would be the point?

if i have a porshe that can do 200mph but i put on tires that only can handle 80 mph... why not buy a toyota that does 80mph and save some$$

would you spend 300$ on a card that preforms the same as a 100$ one?

alpha754293 · 21-November-05, 01:03 PM

remember that AGP8X is perfectly fine for most games. In fact, even for professional CAD work, there's only two cards that I know of that's commerically available that uses the PCIe interface.

Everything else still uses the AGP8X standard, which begs the question - if pro cards don't need it, why should consumer cards use it?

Also note that the "increase" in bandwidth comes as a result of lower latencies, and routing.

The only cards that I know of that can fully saturate the PCIe interface (x16 and dual x16) are currently prototypes right now, some of which have implemented technologies similar to the Opterons, and some of them have switched to mram, and the use of HyperTransport.

Although I haven't conducted tests myself, but I would be more than willing to bet that the performance gain you get from PCIe isn't as much as you think you would.

konai_konai666 · 21-November-05, 07:47 PM

Quote:

14-November-05, 09:56 AM	#1 (permalink)
konai_konai666 DuckWarrior's Personal Quack-Hoe Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Port Townsend, WA (US [of] A).. "America - F--- YEAH!!" Posts: 1,512	x1800 Available in AGP Looks like I might actually be selling this x850XT PE sooner than I first thought.. Looks like the x1800 AGP is coming, -again!.. __________________ NORTH WEST HYPHY MOVEMENT -3DMark06: 5850 - Super PI 1.4: 1M = 28s

14-November-05, 02:03 PM	#3 (permalink)
Nerdz Sir Knight of Spamalot Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Water-hoe-Bury, CT Posts: 6,587	Wouldnt it be bottlenecked by AGP's bandwidth? __________________ I still fold "No amount of Experimentation can Prove Me right, It only takes one to prove me Wrong"-Albert Einstein

14-November-05, 02:15 PM	#4 (permalink)
$SOLID$ Necro Mastah Overclocker Join Date: May 2003 Location: Lima, Ohio Posts: 7,217	No..even 8x AGP was never fully used by previous generations of cards, this X-1800 may be getting a bit closer to the limit, but I'm sure they wouldn't have bothered with AGP if it realy held back the performance of there flagship card! __________________ Join the PC Apex "Overclock and Benchmark" team today! Click Here! Necro's "Ultimate Links" Collection Click Here!

14-November-05, 02:43 PM	#6 (permalink)
Nerdz Sir Knight of Spamalot Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Water-hoe-Bury, CT Posts: 6,587	So why the hell did we go to PCI express? Could we have done SLI with AGP? __________________ I still fold "No amount of Experimentation can Prove Me right, It only takes one to prove me Wrong"-Albert Einstein Last edited by Nerdz; 14-November-05 at 02:45 PM. Reason: d for a g...

14-November-05, 06:35 PM	#8 (permalink)
konai_konai666 DuckWarrior's Personal Quack-Hoe Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Port Townsend, WA (US [of] A).. "America - F--- YEAH!!" Posts: 1,512	Don't forget that there was a dual-AGP system before nVidia's SLI, too.. __________________ NORTH WEST HYPHY MOVEMENT -3DMark06: 5850 - Super PI 1.4: 1M = 28s

14-November-05, 02:37 PM	#5 (permalink)
the _klamper Apex Master Tech Apprentice Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 297	most games used up to 4x bandwidth .... never even came close to using the 8x ..... so in a good system there is no visible performance diff.

14-November-05, 09:51 PM	#10 (permalink)
Nerdz Sir Knight of Spamalot Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Water-hoe-Bury, CT Posts: 6,587	So wait your saying is because of that little card connector thing that connects the 2 card together only allows the cards to work at 8X each rather than 16X Alone? But wouldnt 1 Card running at 16X be better than running 2 at 8X each? __________________ I still fold "No amount of Experimentation can Prove Me right, It only takes one to prove me Wrong"-Albert Einstein

21-November-05, 10:40 AM	#13 (permalink)
Ace123 Apex Tech Fanatic Supreme Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Oregon Posts: 731	I hate to break this to ya guys. this has been gone over on so many forums its not funny. It seems like the agp version of this card was a webmasters screw up on the diamond site. http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/d...117122745.html Last edited by Ace123; 21-November-05 at 10:50 AM.

21-November-05, 10:55 AM	#14 (permalink)
Ace123 Apex Tech Fanatic Supreme Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Oregon Posts: 731	double post They DO have a poll on their homepage regarding the use of AGP flavour 1800s and 7800s. If we all truley want this card (Im indifferent) then I suggest you make your voice heard somewhere. Or maybe we could start some kind of movment hear at pimprig urging a manufacturer to creat a new agp version. all it takes is the pcie-agp bridge already being used on the x800xl and x800gto. Hope is not lost, we all just have to work for it.

21-November-05, 12:44 PM	#15 (permalink)
THRiLL KiLL PcApEX's PuNK ROckER Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 4,589 Blog Entries: 2	what would be the point? if i have a porshe that can do 200mph but i put on tires that only can handle 80 mph... why not buy a toyota that does 80mph and save some$$ would you spend 300$ on a card that preforms the same as a 100$ one? __________________ www.xmb-psp.com

21-November-05, 01:03 PM	#16 (permalink)
alpha754293 Apex Tech Maniac Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 818	remember that AGP8X is perfectly fine for most games. In fact, even for professional CAD work, there's only two cards that I know of that's commerically available that uses the PCIe interface. Everything else still uses the AGP8X standard, which begs the question - if pro cards don't need it, why should consumer cards use it? Also note that the "increase" in bandwidth comes as a result of lower latencies, and routing. The only cards that I know of that can fully saturate the PCIe interface (x16 and dual x16) are currently prototypes right now, some of which have implemented technologies similar to the Opterons, and some of them have switched to mram, and the use of HyperTransport. Although I haven't conducted tests myself, but I would be more than willing to bet that the performance gain you get from PCIe isn't as much as you think you would.