caxis0

When I built my new box back in September, I actually sprung for a Radeon 9800 Pro 128 All-In-Wonder card. (It performs well, stock 3dmark03 was over 5600). I'd never had a tv tuner card before and now I am a total addict and could never think of not including one in any PC of mine.

Well, the damned thing started flaking out a few months ago. It's the strangest thing I've ever seen a video card do! It works as intended so long as my computer is on, but if I turn my computer off for more than a split second, when I turn it back on I get scrambled video (typical of a fried card).

This is the strange part: if I just keep rebooting, eventually the POST will show correctly, but the next screen won't. If I keep on rebooting a few more times, it will get through the XP start up screen and then start scrambling once I get to the Windows logon. A few more times and it makes it all the way in and everything works fine so long as I keep my box powered on. The amount of times I have to reboot seems to be directly related to the length of time I left the computer powered down, the longer it's off, the more reboots before the card works.

I haven't left my box off for more than just a few minutes since I figured this out because I am afraid if I leave it off too long, it may not work again at all.

Isn't that ****ed up? I mean, the damned thing acts like it has to "warm up," which is of course absurd. The fan is of course connected and working and I've reseated it to make sure it hadn't come lose at all. My case stays cool, my load temps (I fold all the time for another board I frequent) stay around 52*C, not exactly cool, but certainly not hot--and never hot when it's just turning on. I don't get it!

The worst: yesterday, it actually went scrambled on me while I was working on it--it hadn't done that before. I rebooted and it was fine (phew) but then flaked out again, I think it's only doing it when I have the TV tuner on, but that is a sign that it's only getting worse.

I want to RMA it, and I will, but I wanted to go ahead and get my next video card and tv tuner card (I want them seperate) for my new box (http://www.deckadance.com/curious/pics/misc/project) that way I could use it in my existing box while I wait for the RMA.

Enough babble: I want some advice on a good TV Tuner card, and what graphics card would you purchase to go with it? I'd likely just get a 9800XT, the newer ones are just too high end and too much money for what I actually need. Is there a brand that seems to do better than the rest and it must accomodate a water block (just in case).

FYI: The 9800 AIW drivers are the pits, the card would be great but the software really comes close to ruining it. I've used 3 different catalyst versions, and installed them all in the correct order, rebooting everytime and there are still kinks that I know aren't any fault of my own. If you are thinking of getting one, I'd honestly suggest against it--not to mention 1-900 number in Canada for any customer service/tech support.

Sparky

IMO oppinion i wouldnt stray too far from ATI now that nvidia has pissed me off, but it looks like you got that under control. BTW if thats your work log, keep it up man thats a really clean job and it looks great so far. I find steel reinforced bits work alot better for cutting metal though.

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caxis0

Quote: Originally Posted by Sparky IMO oppinion i wouldnt stray too far from ATI now that nvidia has pissed me off, but it looks like you got that under control. BTW if thats your work log, keep it up man thats a really clean job and it looks great so far. I find steel reinforced bits work alot better for cutting metal though.

Yeah! I agree totally about the bits, but that is what I had handy at the moment. My drill is put up somewhere and that was quicker--i still have to redrill them though so I can put rubber grommets--thanks for the encouragement The project has been stalled now for a month--unexpected bills, but I intend to get it back on track here in the next two weeks. It's gonna be so cool, I'm going for near silent performance, Imma suspend the harddrives with this cool stuff called Magic Stretch (it's like clear rubber string) and I may end up suspending the pump too.

Prolly gonna use an Abit IC7 Max 3 mb with a P4 3.0c (SL6WU or SL6WK stepping) and two samsung spinpoint 160gb drives (quiet!).

And for all the AMD loyalist out there: my last 4 rigs were AMD and I love AMD, just trying something new (if I change my mind, I'll drop an athlon64 or a 2500m in it).

I may end up stealthing my combo drive too because I don't quite like the finish on the bezel.

Two things giving me the most headaches: 1) chosing my fill and bleed assembly. I wanna make a 3 tap fill and bleed thing with quick connects, but I'm trying to figure out how I'd mount it in the case. Half of me wants to make a resevoir out of something unique--I saw some guy made one out of a vodka bottle, that was pretty cool. 2) deciding on the pump, I've pretty much settled on an eheim 1048 for noise reasons, but I really want more head (who doesn't want more head? )

(oh, and wishing that damned Cathar would just break down and actually sell some of his damned waterblocks)

And no, I don't want an nvidia card, I mean, they are okay I guess, but the company kinda makes me ill. ATi makes me sick right about now, too, but the drivers and software work (for the most part) on the non all in wonder cards--Do you know a good TV Tuner card? I don't know jack about the different ones, guess I should study up.

Fu3lman

didnt read your entire post, so some of my suggestions might be completely out of place...

try a different psu, i can tell you right now that can create weird problems, especially with video thats not only demanding on psu, but also has additional hardware attached to it...

obviously make sure the card is seated, and while im on the subject, CHECK THAT POWER CONNECTOR, it might have worked loose and that can easily create weird problems..

take some compressed air and blow it thru the heatsink, make sure the heatsink is mounted properly, and blow it sharply under the bga's, dust collects there it there is airflow to put it there, and dust on memory modules create several problems, not the least of which is strange intermittent and hard to troubleshoot problems...

all in all, if it were me, before i buy a damn thing, i would reset the bios / cmos, disassemble the whole thing, rebuild the system, and reinstall the OS, and treat it as a brand new device all over again...and see if the problem wasnt resolved inadvertently during the rebuild, believe it man, its saved my sorry ass more times than i can count

EDIT: after reading your post, it sounds almost EXACTLY like an overheating video card, and the remark about "warming up" is actually the card cooling down, since its not being used much during boot and initialization processes, it might still be dangerously hot but every time you boot, you are using the card during cooler and cooler periods, and abviously, its going to perform different each time (starts out totally screwed up, then boots but no post screet, then boots but no startup screen, etc)

look for an overheating problem, period

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caxis0

Thanks for the feedback!

Quote: try a different psu, i can tell you right now that can create weird problems, especially with video thats not only demanding on psu, but also has additional hardware attached to it...

Might as well, I do have a new Enermax Noisetaker that I could hook up to it.

Quote: obviously make sure the card is seated, and while im on the subject, CHECK THAT POWER CONNECTOR, it might have worked loose and that can easily create weird problems

I've checked all of that out thoroughly.

Quote: take some compressed air and blow it thru the heatsink, make sure the heatsink is mounted properly, and blow it sharply under the bga's, dust collects there it there is airflow to put it there, and dust on memory modules create several problems, not the least of which is strange intermittent and hard to troubleshoot problems...

I'm pretty anal about keeping a dust free case, I just dusted it out a couple of days ago and usually do once every couple of weeks. It's free of any obstruction. As for the BGA's, are you talking about BGA Ram Sinks because this didn't come with any, the memory is bare on both sides, and they are completely free of dust.

Quote: all in all, if it were me, before i buy a damn thing, i would reset the bios / cmos, disassemble the whole thing, rebuild the system

Do you really think reseting the BIOS would help? I mean, I know everything is set correctly in there, and it doesn't strike me as a BIOS problem given that the card has it's own BIOS--oh wait, did you mean reseting the cards BIOS? I haven't done that!

Not gonna disassemble the whole thing. The card is seated correctly, the power cord is in there securely, and the fan is spinning away.

Quote: and reinstall the OS, and treat it as a brand new device all over again...

Well, if the problem happens at POST, I think we can safely rule out software as the cause.

Quote: and see if the problem wasnt resolved inadvertently during the rebuild, believe it man, its saved my sorry ass more times than i can count

That's true tho, can't aruge with that. Sometimes just taking something apart and putting it back together has saved me too! But honestly, before I tear this entire system down and mess with the wires I've tried to conceal, I'll just RMA it. It was nearly 400 dollars when I got it (I think it's like 300 or so now, that's still damned expensive), it should work right to begin with! To be honest, I think I have an early one and it's flakey and I really just want to exchange it and try my luck with a replacement.

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TYCOON

Well, if you do decide to RMA it, I would be willing to take it off your hands for you

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neotheducky

Caxis, I also have the AIW 9800, and your comment about the drivers and whatnot makes complete sense to me. If I was buying a card again, I probably wouldnt go through the hassle; instead, I would just get a good TV tuner from Hauppage or something of that nature and a sweet graphics card. The card is great, but ATi's software is extremely lacking.

But with regards to your problem, Fu3l made some really good points. But if you are set on RMAing that sucker, then there isnt much we can recommend. Good luck either way though

Fu3lman

btw Caxis, i used to live in Little Rock, Asher and Fairpark to be exact, right behind UALR...

small frickin world

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Wordbiker

I agree with Fuel's call about the PSU. I've run a 9800pro on a low powered system (150W!) and it exhibited much the same symptoms as you are describing. Your power may have been adequate when you built it originally, but if you've added hardware since then, or your power source fluctuates, it could be struggling now.

To eliminate cooling as an issue, a cheap and easy mod is just popping off the stock HS/F and applying a good thermal paste. Stock video cards often have very poorly applied TIM, and reapplying it can make a world of difference. That shouldn't effect your warranty.

The suggestion about tearing down, cleaning and reformatting is also valid. You wouldn't have to spend a dime, and you'd most likely eliminate some other issues in the process. Other than that...I agree with you. I'd look at RMAing it before trying anything more radical. I never modify my more expensive hardware beyond the point that I can still RMA it.

Good luck with it whatever path you choose.

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Fu3lman

before i forget, i know for a fact that a reference 9700 pro really nees to have about 18A on the +12v rail, and it would surprise you just how many good quality branded psus dont supply that, now, you are talking about an even more powerful card, WITH additional hardware piggybacking off it, seriously, check the specs of your psu and make sure its getting what it needs....

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TekXoID

My 9700 AIW did the exact same thing caxis, and in the end it was the power supply.
Whenever I applied BIOS changes (aka when power is cut off and reapplied to a video card quickly in the quick reboot you get after saving BIOS settings, or an O/S reboot) it always gave currupted display.

The noisetaker is paticularly good for providing GPU's with needed power because of the independent 12V rails and I am yet to boot that old 9700AIW w/curruption. Strangely though my 9800XT never did it, not even on a 350w Enermax.

Another possibility is the loose floppy-drive connector on the card, try to wedge something between the floppy-drive plug and the 9700 PCB, this worked somewhat for me...

caxis0

Quote: btw Caxis, i used to live in Little Rock, Asher and Fairpark to be exact, right behind UALR...

Holy ****, no way! I stay right off of Markham. I know exactly where you are talking about--how long ago? Why'd ya move away?


Thanks for the advice, I do plan to RMA it but I'd like to keep it alive for a while longer so that I can get a new video card in the meanwhile.

My PSU is an Antec True 480, it has 22a on the 12v and 38a on the +5v @ 68% efficiency. All voltages are right on except for the +5 which is typically 4.6v ish.

2 ide 7200 RPM IDE hdds @ 13W each is 26w
2 sata 10k raptors @ approx 30W each is 60w
ide dvd/cd combo drive @ approx 25W
Not sure what the 9800 is, I'd guess about 30W, the docs ask for a 300w psu
Overclocked barton 2800 is probably approaching 100w
Sound, NIC, and MB are about 50w all together
cpu fan is 3w
case fans x5 total 15w

I tried to estimate pretty high, the total is 309w.

Quote: The suggestion about tearing down, cleaning and reformatting is also valid. You wouldn't have to spend a dime, and you'd most likely eliminate some other issues in the process

Well, that's just it, I don't have any other issues, not one. I'm quick to format if something acts even a little retarded, but I honestly think this is in the hardware somewhere.

Ah hell, I'm going to hook up my Enermax Noisetaker 480 right now. I'm going to leave the computer off for about 5 or 10 minutes, and I'll go over everything again with duster (it's clean now, but just to be extra sure). If it boots, then it's probably a PSU issue, right?

Thanks again for helping me brainstorm this! I appreciate it. Wish me luck.

Bruce

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caxis0

Wow! I waited over 10 minutes, booted up, worked fine. Shutdown, waited almost 20 more minutes, booted up, worked fine! I think it _IS_ the PSU after all--I knew it was hardware, but I swore up and down it had to be the card.

I had thought of swappin' em out before now, but didn't want to because I cut an itty bitty hole to route all the wires behind the mb on my new case and it was a pain to get the psu and all the wires in there the way I wanted. As it turns out, I just set the new case next to the old one and ran the wires across--really ghetto

I'm running the TV tuner just to be sure, but I think we've found the culprit, thanks for letting me bounce my thoughts off of you, and thanks for the great and appropriate advice.

Right now, I'm running on the Enermax Noisetaker 470w. It has dual 12v rails, 16a and 15a and it has 40a on the +5. Efficiency is 82%. MBM reports voltages of 3.4v, 4.95v, 12.74v, -12.74v, and -5.3v which is fine by me

Bruce
[edit: I still would love some advice on a decent tv tuner card]

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TekXoID