AGP's last stand, interested in gainward 7800gs+, is it unreliable tho?

SYNERGY · 25-October-06, 05:59 PM

Hi all

You can see my system spec in my signature, its ~ 2yrs old and its all based on AGP technology.
I don't have the ability to outlay the initial cost to upgrade to PCI-E at this moment in time however think that a 7800gs+ from gainward will stand me in good stead at least for a while longer.
Needless to say I feel threatened by the new games coming out!

However having read as much as I can about the card I have become slightly unsettled.

Q) Why is this card CHEAPER than the inferior 20 pipeline model from gainward?
A?)That they are unreliable and lots of them may have failed subsequently and they are trying to get rid of them
Overclockers UK AGP

Q) Is it the case that this card is unreliable? I am finding it hard to find any info on this and was wandering if any of you guys have come across anything like this

Would my 3.3ghz northwood bottleneck-limit this GPU? The card is Ã‚Â£234 which isn't all that bad IMO and seems really powerful.
My housemate has just installed a 7600GT in his system and got 12,532 in 3dmark03 ( I get ~11,000)
He doesn't think the extra pipelines will be all that different but I say it HAS to be.

Gainward GeForce 7800GS+ 512MB DDR3 AGP Dual DVI TV Out (471846200-7876)

All those guys sure seem to like the card?!

What you reckon give it a go and RMA it within its warranty if it buggers up? Don't want them to run out of them 1500 made apparently.

Cheers,

Syn

Slaymate · 25-October-06, 06:09 PM

I have a BFG 7800GS OC 256mb model. It's a Great card. I have it paired up with a P4 3.0C
running at 3.45. It kicks the X800XT PE's tail I did have in it. I would have to recommend the
BFG model just because of the warranty

s1ugh34d · 25-October-06, 06:29 PM

one answer dont go for the 512 card, go with 256 even todays games don't need 512, and that will makeit cos less.

Other than that i have no experiece with these, but one of our PCA members has dual gainwards i think, maybe even 7800GS just the PCIe version, he could help you out, if i could only remember who

reflux · 26-October-06, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s1ugh34d


	one answer dont go for the 512 card, go with 256 even todays games don't need 512, and that will makeit cos less.

FEAR and Quake 4 certainly benefit, and what about Crysis, UT2007 and ET: Quake Wars when they come out?

SYNERGY, I've just noticed that GeCube are releasing an AGP ATi X1950 Pro card come the end of November. This'll be faster than the 7800GS AGP, and is listed as costing only Ã‚Â£187 as opposed to the Gainward 7800GS @ Ã‚Â£250ish!

Overclockers UK AGP

Zaltan · 26-October-06, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reflux


	FEAR and Quake 4 certainly benefit, and what about Crysis, UT2007 and ET: Quake Wars when they come out? SYNERGY, I've just noticed that GeCube are releasing an AGP ATi X1950 Pro card come the end of November. This'll be faster than the 7800GS AGP, and is listed as costing only Ã‚Â£187 as opposed to the Gainward 7800GS @ Ã‚Â£250ish! Overclockers UK AGP

X1950PRO will probably be a fair bit quicker aswell.

Wafflesomd · 26-October-06, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s1ugh34d


	one answer dont go for the 512 card, go with 256 even todays games don't need 512, and that will makeit cos less. Other than that i have no experiece with these, but one of our PCA members has dual gainwards i think, maybe even 7800GS just the PCIe version, he could help you out, if i could only remember who

Gotta disagree, and I think someone beat me, but F.E.A.R. greatly benfitis from 512, my freind has a lower end card than I, but his has 512, and actually gets better framerates than mine.

SYNERGY · 26-October-06, 05:53 PM

how fast will that ATI be? Anyone know how many pipelines?
Nice price yeh but i've only built one system and its with this nvidia card and I really like what i've seen so far so will be odd to go ATI

I think really I need something to run ut2k7 or unreal3 engine games nice, stuff like supreme commander and c&c 3 depending how demanding that game is

Also is this really the END for AGP interms of further development? Are there gonna be any more powerful cards put onto market or is this ATI gonna beat the gainward 7800gs+ and be the fastest for AGP once and for all?
I don't understand how PCI-E is so GREAT if the same card can still run on the bandwidthe offered by x8 AGP slots.

syn

reflux · 26-October-06, 06:04 PM

Have a look here.

Also, X1950 specs are as follows:

Features
- 80nm fabrication process
- 36 pixel shader processors
- 8 vertex shader processors
- Up to 256-bit 8-channel memory interface
- Native PCI Express x16 bus interface
-575mhz GPU
-256mb 1.38ghz GDDR3

That's opposed to the Gainward, which has 20 pipes, a GPU @ 420mhz, and memory at only 1200mhz.

Both cards will be fine in new games, but the Radeon will outperform the 7800gs by quite a long way. I wouldn't worry about making it your first ATi purchase - the X1950 is a solid card, and the fastest AGP part ever. Oh, and it's cheaper too. You'd be mad to go for the 7800GS!

I'm fairly sure the x1950 will be the last AGP part released - but then nVidia weren't ever going to release another one after the 6-series, and they did.

SYNERGY · 27-October-06, 06:46 AM

I'm confused is a pixel shader the same as a pipeline? I thought it was a more efficient way to render lighting effects without tying up the GPU itself. So 36 as a figure is that good?
Does ATI not go by pipelines as nvidia does? Just haven't seen it as in-yer-face on the specs as the nvidias. Sorry to go on about them but it seems an important determining factor regarding any given cards' performance.
If it beats the 7800GS from GAINWARD and the goldensample then at that price that is admittedly awesome

reflux · 27-October-06, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SYNERGY


	I'm confused is a pixel shader the same as a pipeline? I thought it was a more efficient way to render lighting effects without tying up the GPU itself. So 36 as a figure is that good? Does ATI not go by pipelines as nvidia does? Just haven't seen it as in-yer-face on the specs as the nvidias. Sorry to go on about them but it seems an important determining factor regarding any given cards' performance. If it beats the 7800GS from GAINWARD and the goldensample then at that price that is admittedly awesome

Neither company 'go by pipelines' as you say. By pipelines I am referring to pixel pipes - ie in this case, the nVidia card has 20, the ATi 36. And, yes, once again, the x1950 is better than the 7800GS.

Reza · 27-October-06, 10:31 AM

Go with the X1950, you won't regret it!

SYNERGY · 27-October-06, 12:27 PM

why didn't they equip the x1950 with 512mb?

Reza · 27-October-06, 01:00 PM

I don't know, nor do I care, but its the better card out of the two. Lets drop the fan boy charade about nVidia. The X1950PRO is the card you should go for if you want the raw power, choose the 7800GS if you are uber loyal.

HemiCuda1970 · 27-October-06, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reflux


	Have a look here. Also, X1950 specs are as follows: Features - 80nm fabrication process - 36 pixel shader processors - 8 vertex shader processors - Up to 256-bit 8-channel memory interface - Native PCI Express x16 bus interface -575mhz GPU -256mb 1.38ghz GDDR3 That's opposed to the Gainward, which has 20 pipes, a GPU @ 420mhz, and memory at only 1200mhz. Both cards will be fine in new games, but the Radeon will outperform the 7800gs by quite a long way. I wouldn't worry about making it your first ATi purchase - the X1950 is a solid card, and the fastest AGP part ever. Oh, and it's cheaper too. You'd be mad to go for the 7800GS! I'm fairly sure the x1950 will be the last AGP part released - but then nVidia weren't ever going to release another one after the 6-series, and they did.

Just don't try to run Linux with ATI........Gave me hell and had to pop my old 6600GT back in..

SYNERGY · 28-October-06, 01:07 PM

I would love to play CRYSIS on the juicy settings, wonder how my system would fare with thex1950? I should think It will do pretty good I currently only run 1280x1024 on my 6800GE...

Minimum Requirements (speculated)

CPU: Athlon 64 3000+/Intel 2.8ghz
Graphics: Nvidia 6600/X800GTO (SM 2.0)
RAM: 768Mb/1Gb on Windows Vista
HDD: 6GB
Internet: 256k+
Optical Drive: DVD
Software: DX9.0c with Windows XP

Recommended Requirements

CPU: Dual-core CPU (Athlon X2/Pentium D)
Graphics: Nvidia 7800GTX/ATI X1800XT (SM 3.0) or DX10 equivalent
RAM: 1.5Gb
HDD: 6GB
Internet: 512k+ (128k+ upstream)
Optical Drive: DVD
Software: DX10 with Windows Vista

Does vista IMPROVE games or what? Why should I even get it if it's gonna tie up so much system memory like ppl say it will! Just for added security I guess

Sn0wMan · 28-October-06, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SYNERGY


	Does vista IMPROVE games or what? Why should I even get it if it's gonna tie up so much system memory like ppl say it will! Just for added security I guess

Security, on a Microsoft OS?

As far as vista goes, it will tie up more memory, and use it more aggressively, but the main adantage would be DX10. I have heard that they are releasing a DX9.0L, which is basically DX10 for windows XP. Hope that helps.

Reza · 28-October-06, 01:56 PM

DirectX 9L is not DX10 for XP, its just a stand in so Direct X 10 games will be playable on XP, it doesn't actually add any of the fancy effects DX10 does.

reflux · 10-December-06, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slaymate


	Looks like Spam to me

Explain...?

Nerdz · 10-December-06, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reflux


	Explain...?

It got deleted, it was a post by Krizzy.

Fire Hawk · 10-December-06, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reflux


	Explain...?

there was someone, their name started with a k, that posted some message about finding a website, on a lot of the threads
they got removed

kay, so, agp, I still use agp, I have a 6800 nu, it's been overclocked and unlocked, and for a while, it was running a tad faster than an ultra
it's burning out, now, but, that's not important

you don't need to read this next bit, my non expert oppinion is in the last part

the last I heard about agp bandwidth is, games don't use all of it, cpu's can cause bottle necks, and so, there's still room on the agp bus, for even more information, Im not sure if this has recently changed, but, I don't think it has, because DirectX nine c has some issues that keep the cpu very busie, such as validating resources before every draw call, they're changing this in DirectX ten, resources are validated before the first draw call, and not again
there are some other problems that create overhead that allows a maximum of about five hundred objects to be rendered in one scene at a time

removing all this overhead is a big improvement in DirectX ten
also, in DirectX ten, graphics cards will be required to support certain features, so, you don't have card

25-October-06, 05:59 PM		#1 (permalink)
SYNERGY Apex Advanced Techie	AGP's last stand, interested in gainward 7800gs+, is it unreliable tho? Hi all You can see my system spec in my signature, its ~ 2yrs old and its all based on AGP technology. I don't have the ability to outlay the initial cost to upgrade to PCI-E at this moment in time however think that a 7800gs+ from gainward will stand me in good stead at least for a while longer. Needless to say I feel threatened by the new games coming out! However having read as much as I can about the card I have become slightly unsettled. Q) Why is this card CHEAPER than the inferior 20 pipeline model from gainward? A?)That they are unreliable and lots of them may have failed subsequently and they are trying to get rid of them Overclockers UK AGP Q) Is it the case that this card is unreliable? I am finding it hard to find any info on this and was wandering if any of you guys have come across anything like this Would my 3.3ghz northwood bottleneck-limit this GPU? The card is Ã‚Â£234 which isn't all that bad IMO and seems really powerful. My housemate has just installed a 7600GT in his system and got 12,532 in 3dmark03 ( I get ~11,000) He doesn't think the extra pipelines will be all that different but I say it HAS to be. Gainward GeForce 7800GS+ 512MB DDR3 AGP Dual DVI TV Out (471846200-7876) All those guys sure seem to like the card?! What you reckon give it a go and RMA it within its warranty if it buggers up? Don't want them to run out of them 1500 made apparently. Cheers, Syn

25-October-06, 06:09 PM		#2 (permalink)
Slaymate PCApex Reviewer From Hell	Re: AGP's last stand, interested in gainward 7800gs+, is it unreliable tho? I have a BFG 7800GS OC 256mb model. It's a Great card. I have it paired up with a P4 3.0C running at 3.45. It kicks the X800XT PE's tail I did have in it. I would have to recommend the BFG model just because of the warranty

25-October-06, 06:29 PM		#3 (permalink)
s1ugh34d Apex Tech God	Re: AGP's last stand, interested in gainward 7800gs+, is it unreliable tho? one answer dont go for the 512 card, go with 256 even todays games don't need 512, and that will makeit cos less. Other than that i have no experiece with these, but one of our PCA members has dual gainwards i think, maybe even 7800GS just the PCIe version, he could help you out, if i could only remember who

26-October-06, 05:53 PM		#7 (permalink)
SYNERGY Apex Advanced Techie	Re: AGP's last stand, interested in gainward 7800gs+, is it unreliable tho? how fast will that ATI be? Anyone know how many pipelines? Nice price yeh but i've only built one system and its with this nvidia card and I really like what i've seen so far so will be odd to go ATI I think really I need something to run ut2k7 or unreal3 engine games nice, stuff like supreme commander and c&c 3 depending how demanding that game is Also is this really the END for AGP interms of further development? Are there gonna be any more powerful cards put onto market or is this ATI gonna beat the gainward 7800gs+ and be the fastest for AGP once and for all? I don't understand how PCI-E is so GREAT if the same card can still run on the bandwidthe offered by x8 AGP slots. syn Last edited by SYNERGY; 26-October-06 at 06:05 PM.

26-October-06, 06:04 PM		#8 (permalink)
reflux Sempr0n?	Re: AGP's last stand, interested in gainward 7800gs+, is it unreliable tho? Have a look here. Also, X1950 specs are as follows: Features - 80nm fabrication process - 36 pixel shader processors - 8 vertex shader processors - Up to 256-bit 8-channel memory interface - Native PCI Express x16 bus interface -575mhz GPU -256mb 1.38ghz GDDR3 That's opposed to the Gainward, which has 20 pipes, a GPU @ 420mhz, and memory at only 1200mhz. Both cards will be fine in new games, but the Radeon will outperform the 7800gs by quite a long way. I wouldn't worry about making it your first ATi purchase - the X1950 is a solid card, and the fastest AGP part ever. Oh, and it's cheaper too. You'd be mad to go for the 7800GS! I'm fairly sure the x1950 will be the last AGP part released - but then nVidia weren't ever going to release another one after the 6-series, and they did. Last edited by reflux; 26-October-06 at 06:09 PM.

27-October-06, 06:46 AM		#9 (permalink)
SYNERGY Apex Advanced Techie	Re: AGP's last stand, interested in gainward 7800gs+, is it unreliable tho? I'm confused is a pixel shader the same as a pipeline? I thought it was a more efficient way to render lighting effects without tying up the GPU itself. So 36 as a figure is that good? Does ATI not go by pipelines as nvidia does? Just haven't seen it as in-yer-face on the specs as the nvidias. Sorry to go on about them but it seems an important determining factor regarding any given cards' performance. If it beats the 7800GS from GAINWARD and the goldensample then at that price that is admittedly awesome

27-October-06, 10:31 AM		#11 (permalink)
Reza Apex Elite Expert Tech	Re: AGP's last stand, interested in gainward 7800gs+, is it unreliable tho? Go with the X1950, you won't regret it!

27-October-06, 12:27 PM		#12 (permalink)
SYNERGY Apex Advanced Techie	Re: AGP's last stand, interested in gainward 7800gs+, is it unreliable tho? why didn't they equip the x1950 with 512mb?

27-October-06, 01:00 PM		#13 (permalink)
Reza Apex Elite Expert Tech	Re: AGP's last stand, interested in gainward 7800gs+, is it unreliable tho? I don't know, nor do I care, but its the better card out of the two. Lets drop the fan boy charade about nVidia. The X1950PRO is the card you should go for if you want the raw power, choose the 7800GS if you are uber loyal.

28-October-06, 01:07 PM		#15 (permalink)
SYNERGY Apex Advanced Techie	Re: AGP's last stand, interested in gainward 7800gs+, is it unreliable tho? I would love to play CRYSIS on the juicy settings, wonder how my system would fare with thex1950? I should think It will do pretty good I currently only run 1280x1024 on my 6800GE... Minimum Requirements (speculated) CPU: Athlon 64 3000+/Intel 2.8ghz Graphics: Nvidia 6600/X800GTO (SM 2.0) RAM: 768Mb/1Gb on Windows Vista HDD: 6GB Internet: 256k+ Optical Drive: DVD Software: DX9.0c with Windows XP Recommended Requirements CPU: Dual-core CPU (Athlon X2/Pentium D) Graphics: Nvidia 7800GTX/ATI X1800XT (SM 3.0) or DX10 equivalent RAM: 1.5Gb HDD: 6GB Internet: 512k+ (128k+ upstream) Optical Drive: DVD Software: DX10 with Windows Vista Does vista IMPROVE games or what? Why should I even get it if it's gonna tie up so much system memory like ppl say it will! Just for added security I guess

28-October-06, 01:56 PM		#17 (permalink)
Reza Apex Elite Expert Tech	Re: AGP's last stand, interested in gainward 7800gs+, is it unreliable tho? DirectX 9L is not DX10 for XP, its just a stand in so Direct X 10 games will be playable on XP, it doesn't actually add any of the fancy effects DX10 does.