thanx bill, tomarrow.....eeerrrrrrrr......later today im gunna make a quick mock-up to see what kind of space i working with because i dont have any cad sofware to do it that way. so im gunna fine me a cardboard box

Howdy Team!

I caught Grumblestiltskin up in a Skype discussion today (yeah, that is a hint ) and man....did we ever come up with some freaky ideas!

We started discussing the potential uses Gary could have for this case, and a LAN server was one of them. This got us to thinking about integrating a router or a switch for some easy connections in a hurry. The plan would be to have it powered by the PSU, and perhaps even have WiFi connectivity. May as well have bluetooth capability, and run everything internal to the case. Of course those require antennas, so why not do some powered antennas that pop up when needed, or if we wanted to find a "use" for those Caddy fins, use a pair of fin antennas, sort of like this one on an Iwill ZmaxDP dual-opteron SFF:



We also discussed the fact that we would really like to see this mod stand out from the crowd, and yet still be practically usable. This led to the completely unrelated idea of putting two complete computers inside the case in an ATX/BTX configuration.

Come on...can you imagine two motherboard trays mounted to rear-hinged doors, both systems cooled through the same radiator on two different pump loops? Of course, this would preclude the use of windows for viewing hardware...unless it was in the top or front. Both mobo trays could also be moved slightly forward, the rear panel of the case replaced with a clean door, with holes for the the fan grills and a slot at the bottom. To access the cables you'd just pop open the door (perhaps with a car door styled handle as GS previously suggested...uber-trickness) or swing open the side panel with the mobo attached to the door for any major swaps.

We ran with this idea, envisioning USB header to ethernet adapters connecting the two systems for a clean full-internal install, dual slot-loading Plextor PX-716AL DVD burners, the potential for 8 monitors with a dual-SLI setup.....

OK, so we're dreaming...but we're dreaming BIG!

Attached Thumbnails

 

ok i put the rads in sketchup (that i DL'ed earlier) inside a very similar sized case, almost exact same dimensions (dragon full tower).

and the front rads will only work with Black ice Pro, if we do extreme then the pumps will have to be relocated, hopefully (ill double check tonight) that the case is wide enough to where both can be mounted on the right panel side.

Attached Thumbnails

 

Wordbiker & Grumblestiltski - awesome brainstorming session Keep the ideas coming gang!

beachbum86 - Just curious, do you have any hard data or experience on the temperature gains we can expect by stacking 2 rads versus using 1 triple?

Lokie, GrandpaNoob 72, MasterP and Grumblestiltskin - I'll measure panel space around the support braces for your case aesthetics brainstroming, will have them posted by this time tommorow.

Quote: Originally Posted by mnpctech_guy Wordbiker & Grumblestiltski - awesome brainstorming session Keep the ideas coming gang! beachbum86 - Just curious, do you have any hard data or experience on the temperature gains we can expect by stacking 2 rads versus using 1 triple? Lokie, GrandpaNoob 72, MasterP and Grumblestiltskin - I'll measure panel space around the support braces for your case aesthetics brainstroming, will have them posted by this time tommorow.

the temp drop will be minumal im sure, but tempurature stability no doubt will be great meaning the fluxuation between idle and load will be minimal. idle for my P4 3.2ghz@3.6 is 28c, load is 36c (on cooler days), when i tested this idea with a spare single black ice rad over my dual on my koolance rig idle went to 27c and load went to 33c . so the gap between the two numbers was closer and it knocked off a degree from idle and this was using only one d4 pump with a single stacked on a double.
i mean we dont need to do dual rads but there is a somewhat of a performance benifit and it looks cool too. now i dont have any degrees or anything in thermal properties but all i know is visual proof and thats what i got from this test.

-note- this was just cooling cpu only. using black ice pro rads. with 3 120mm fans pushing about 70cfm

Panel Pimps -

Space dimensions for Left Panel Designs. Print out sheet for sketches

Attached Thumbnails

 

That's awesome, Bill, thanks! That will give me something to start sketching from, albeit with my finger-paint and crayola artistic skillz that may take some time... Probably this weekend.

Not to rain on anyone's parade, but I have reservations on the effectiveness of the water cooling design. First, I think it looks really cool. And simply having that much radiator is going to allow it to work fairly well.

It just won't work as well as it should. Sandwiching fans between rads is going to make them virtually useless because of the massive shrouding effect of the radiators. The closer any object is to a fan the less efficient it is. And trying to get enough air through one radiator can be hard enough, two is going to reduce air flow to a trickle. And you'd also have a noise issue with five fans all straining harder than they are designed for.

I'm certainly not opposed to two rads run off two pumps, but pump flow should always be kept in series flow and not parallel in my opinion.

I'd like to see a Innovatek Ultra passive rad on the side, but that would lead to stability issues on a wheeled case. It would also make shipping difficult.

Quote: Originally Posted by AntiM Not to rain on anyone's parade, but I have reservations on the effectiveness of the water cooling design. First, I think it looks really cool. And simply having that much radiator is going to allow it to work fairly well. It just won't work as well as it should. Sandwiching fans between rads is going to make them virtually useless because of the massive shrouding effect of the radiators. The closer any object is to a fan the less efficient it is. And trying to get enough air through one radiator can be hard enough, two is going to reduce air flow to a trickle. And you'd also have a noise issue with five fans all straining harder than they are designed for. I'm certainly not opposed to two rads run off two pumps, but pump flow should always be kept in series flow and not parallel in my opinion. I'd like to see a Innovatek Ultra passive rad on the side, but that would lead to stability issues on a wheeled case. It would also make shipping difficult.

What if instead of sandwitching the rad ontop of the fans, we use stand-offs to make abouta 1/2" gap between them? this will allow some breathing room for the tripple rad... what ya think AnitM ?

Better, but I'm still at a loss as to how you would physically connect the two rads together. Have you given that any thought?

It's a cool looking design, but I think if you could get you hands on a ThermoChill PA series 120.3 rad, you'd have better performance and could use very quiet fans. And you'd have a LOT less back pressure to deal with.

Possibly using allthread (6/32 ?), with spacers between each rad, directly on the allthread, to create the gap between rads... The problem then becomes how to (or, more to the point, what to use to) hold the allthread up with... Perhaps some sort of custom-fabricated "cage", and have the rads suspended on the allthreads, and those in turn screwed into the support frame of the cage... Is this sort of what you meant / had in mind, beachbum?

i told MasterP this,

dont think of the second Radiator as a radiator, think of it more as an activly cooled res. its main purpose is to KEEP temps down under heavy load. connecting all of it together will be no more then a 20 min browse through home depot

grandpanoob's idea would work fine too for the job.

but if you dont like this concept AntiM, then i can just as easily scrap this and try somethin else. either way is fine by me

where BA at? hahaha

My apologies on the delay, the Missus made me my fav dinner, Black beans and rice, Brasilian style... Dinner was ready right after I posted my "interpretation" of what beachbum was saying... Here's what I see in my mind...

Attached Thumbnails

 

yes that would work, because im pretty sure that all the rads are made to where the water viens dont go directly beneath any of the fan holes.
im actually using this technique in my silver surfer mod but in another application. im using polished cap nuts to finish off the ends of the threaded bar.1/32 might be a little too small and alow too much play i think for what we would us it for here, 1/16 threaded bar might be a good thing to look into. and we would only need the spacers inbetween the triple rad fans and the back of the dual rad. and for support maybe a custom acrylic bracket would look awesome.
thanx GPN

-edit-
here is what i ment. holes can be cut for tubing and such. the piece of acrylic on the back of the triple doesnt realy neet to be there...could just use the case front for that. and we can cut like tribal flames out of the acrylic too.

Attached Thumbnails

 

umm guys

Twiz and Wordbiker and I have been talking some ideas... that if you guys wanna go with it, would give you crazy possibilities for WC system, but would need modifications from what ya currently are planning.

Join us on in discussion.

We got something we think would be really cool, but need some feedback from the team.

G

OK bro sounds good, im down.

where da club house at

Quote: Originally Posted by beachbum86 OK bro sounds good, im down. where da club house at

Skype

Hit me on Skype later on and I will forward all the contacts I have thus far..... Will try to be on later tonight also for a mini meeting if anyone is interested.... I think the ideas we discussed would deffinatly set this mod into the books... its been attempted in the past... but.... honestly it was a poor attempt from what I seen... and with the talent we have here we could knock this one out of the ball park.....

I'll be on later this afternoon... Got more homework to get done for work...

What's a good time for everyone else?

yeah, i just found a mic..hurray.

ill be at my desk for a few more hours.

my skype is:
beachbum86

oh and what is your handle twizted?

-edit-
crap i think the mic is broke....sux it was still in package...

An email was sent to the project members with all the Skype contact information.

beachbum
If you need a headphone/mic I have an extra Plantronics I would be happy to send out to you if you would like.