Ok, so this is my first work log, and my first True CUSTOM case. The plan is to take your average liquid cooling to another level. Most liquid cooling systems i have dealt with use the same concept. A pump, a resavoir, cpu/gpu block and a radiator to cool the liquid. The problem... most radiators will only cool the liquid to ambient room temperatures. While you will see significant changes in your cpu temp or video card temperatures. Your not getting that truly extreme cooling option.

So i threw around the idea of a refridgerator pc but it seems like there are too many variables to determine. The one major risk are condensation developing on pc components, and we all know that is a BIG No No. so i believe I have thought of a way to incorporate that same idea but using liquid cooling to do it. Since i cant post pictures yet, ill describe this to the best of my ability.

I have the following parts so far,

A koolance resavoir/pump, i believe its the exos system.
a centaurion case from coolermaster
all the tubing is 1/4" and i got a bunch of splitters for the connectors.
I am going to use the cooling design from a mini fridge which uses those peltier systems to cool the liquid. In order cool the liquid and not the entire system, i plan on building a air tight box above the case which will house the resavoir/pump, the radiator (im still debating whether to make it home made with copper piping, or order a premade radiator), and the peltier cooling system.

The peltier system is expected to refrigerate the entire box to eliminate any heat, thus creating extremely cool liquid to flow through the tubing to all the blocks. Since the cpu and gpu both get very hot, i want to split the outputs and inputs on the koolance kit and have each individual block have its own path to and from the pump and have its own path through the radiator. Thus allowing both cpu and gpu to receive the same cold liquid hitting the blocks.

The primary obstacle will be setting up the system to prevent condesation from forming on the tubing which will be running through a normal air cooled case. Because i dont forsee me doing to much to the case visually at the moment, i intend on wrapping all the tubing with insulation. The box at the top which will house all the important compents will be made out of fiberglass to retain the cold air and keep the hot air out. the box is going to be on top of the case, most likely elevated for a unique look, with some tubing coming from the lower portion of the case up into the box. One thing i have yet to determine is how quickly the mini fridge will be able to drop in temp to cool the kit. Since i havent quite received it yet, but have it on order! But if the peltier system works fast i can wire it to turn on with the computer. Otherwise, im going to get one of those thermaltake powersupplies for the video card (its like 200-250 watts) and wire that so it is always on and always cooling the box above the case.

The overall goal is to achieve temps 20-30 degrees lower then a normal liquid cooling solution. Otherwise ive wasted a few man hours and a few dollars on the mini fridge. But the water cooling kit can be reused so its not horrible.

If anyone has any suggestions/comments/objections. Id be more then happy to hear them. Especially if anyone has any insight on what material would work better, the radiators you find currently with water cooling kit (minus the fan) or building a maze of copper tubing for the liquid to run through. I would assume the longer the liquids path through the tubing the cooler it would get.

Hopefully ive explained this well enough to understand. the lack of pictures doesnt help right now, but eventually ill get things posted up for everyone to see.

Here you go. Just buy one of these :-)
IceProbe Thermoelectric Water Cooling Device :: CoolWorks Inc

how you cooling the peltiers ?

Quote: Originally Posted by killert how you cooling the peltiers ?

the peltiers are cooled from electric current... or atleast that is what i believe my research says.

your typical mini fridge is 120 watts ,far short of whats needed.

You will need at least 800 to 1000 watts of peltiers to cool that liquid loop to low temps .
Maybe 20-30f at the lowest.

when used as you propose, you'll be having to cool all the tubing,resevoir,pump and blocks...

Optimally and practically speaking,Pelts should be located on the chips cooled by the liquid loop, not the other way around.



By comparison a small refrigeration compressor needed to cool that loop, will use around 400-500 watts and achieve sub zero temps loaded!!!

Quote: Originally Posted by CustomFxs the peltiers are cooled from electric current... or atleast that is what i believe my research says.

One side gets cold and the other side gets hot

I think you should research more before you dive into this
especially if you don't understand how peltier coolers work

i hope you got a lot of space for everything you're gunna need bra

Quote: Originally Posted by Slaymate Here you go. Just buy one of these :-) IceProbe Thermoelectric Water Cooling Device :: CoolWorks Inc

I know what I'm getting if I ever water cool a system.

NOOO!!! that things junk...
Its made for low usage application's like waterfountains

Its only rated at 60 watts or so . you'd need twelve of them ,or more.

Again,you'll need at least 800+ watts to cool a full system waterloop.

Heres some links to the items ,you need 2 of each for your loop.

pelts
437W Qmax Peltier - FrozenCPU.com

power supply
Mean Well 600W 24V Single Output Switching Auxiliary Power Supply (SE-600-24) - FrozenCPU.com

Relay/Pid temperature controller, with 40Amp ssr relay
(used for safety,pelts have a nasty habit of cooking things when it all goes bad...)
PID Temperature Controller + 40A SSR Fah/Celsius - eBay (item 350027831058 end time Feb-26-08 17:46:56 PST)

cold plate
Cold Plates | Page 1 | Sort By: Product Title A-Z - FrozenCPU.com ?


Several waterblocks are also needed.

800 watts to cool a full system water loop. What size reservoir are you thinking about that needs that much power. A phase change doesn't even need 800 watts. For a basic system the IceProbe I linked will be like having a big ice cube in your reservior. You will have problems with your tubing sweating. With 800 watts you'll need to worry more about your liquid freezing.
If you want more than the ice probe then just buy a Aquarium Chiller. It will be way less expensive than a 800 watt peltier system.
Aquarium Chillers

Im feeling what your saying Slaymate, i dont see that i am going to need such an extremity as everyone else is thinking... the idea is have the peltier system cool the liquid to temps below that of a normal liquid cool system.. if a normal liquid cooling system uses just fans to cool the liquid running through the radiators. I find it hard to believe an entire system needs to be created just to lower the temps of the liquid. I will look into that ice probe some more, its seems that could work... and worst case scenario, the mini fridge i bought to take apart ill keep it in tact and use it for my room!

As for the tubes sweating if i use the ice probe in the manner you are suggesting... i dont really need an radiators then to cool the liquid because i would have the ice probe continually cooling the liquid, correct?

Also those aquarium chillers, arent exactly in my budget right now...
The other idea was to make that separate box into a mini fridge and have it air tight. So rather then the tubing being linked to radiators, have it run through the box ( the resavoir would be located there as well) and freeze up a bit before running back to the blocks.

So you kow the mini fridge will burn up (or blow up) before you computer makes three hours with it. The fridge is made to kill heat, once, and then maintain temperature. Thus if a constant heat is inside the fridge, it consistently does the same thing, exactly what it's not made to do.

As for peltiers, if you remake something similar to this Arctic Web obviously it had potential, but even the company making it, went under.

I have been waiting for DD to make something on the lines of it, but a RBX and a couple cold plates will yield similar results.

Best best for peltier use in a computer, in between the CPU and water block. Otherwise, you could make a AC, but it wouldn't be a dehumidifier though. Check this one out.

Quote: Originally Posted by CustomFxs Im feeling what your saying Slaymate, i dont see that i am going to need such an extremity as everyone else is thinking... the idea is have the peltier system cool the liquid to temps below that of a normal liquid cool system.. if a normal liquid cooling system uses just fans to cool the liquid running through the radiators. I find it hard to believe an entire system needs to be created just to lower the temps of the liquid. I will look into that ice probe some more, its seems that could work... and worst case scenario, the mini fridge i bought to take apart ill keep it in tact and use it for my room! As for the tubes sweating if i use the ice probe in the manner you are suggesting... i dont really need an radiators then to cool the liquid because i would have the ice probe continually cooling the liquid, correct? Also those aquarium chillers, arent exactly in my budget right now... The other idea was to make that separate box into a mini fridge and have it air tight. So rather then the tubing being linked to radiators, have it run through the box ( the resavoir would be located there as well) and freeze up a bit before running back to the blocks.

The tubes will sweat once they reach below the air temperature, and if there is humidity. To not use a radiator, and put any CPU under that W/C block the heat from teh CPU will eventually kill the ice probe, and then the water will not so slowly rise to a temp that will hopefully just shutdown your system.

You have to have a rad. Hands down, you make a radless w/c loop, you are going to hurt something you are cooling, You could possibly get away with just northwaters, but they cost more that rads.

Quote: Originally Posted by Slaymate . With 800 watts you'll need to worry more about your liquid freezing.

No it wil not .

Use a Mixture of 50% propylene glycol , 25% ethyl alchohal and 25% distilled water.

Also the whole point of using the "Pid temperature controller" is to Control the temperature, and give a failsafe to the system.



Peltiers typically work at about a 2 to 1 ratio.
That is ,for the approximate heat load of 350 watts from a Whole midrange system ,you'g need 700 watts of pelts to effectivly cool it.

I'm not trying to step on your toes slay ,but I do have a "little" experience with this...

geez, im beggining to think im way over my head.... So let me ask you guys this. If i go with a water chiller similar to the equipment used for the aquariums, i wouldnt need the peltier system but would the system react to the liquid coolant differently then that of water? Im not sure if those chillers have a filter of some sort built into them. But the overall goal is to create way below ambient temperatures in the liquid. Im not concerned about the tubes sweating as i intend on wrapping them with insulation to prevent the air from actually affecting the temps of the tubes.

Another thought is if i use the iceprobe in the resavoir, what if i get say 2 or 3 of them and create mini resavoirs between the blocks so that each one is cooling the liquid and there isnt one probe trying to cool the liquid coming from both the GPU and the CPU... THink of it as an inline system, similar to the liquid passing through radiators, have it also then empty in to a small resavoir to be cooled further with the probes?

Quote: Originally Posted by CustomFxs geez, im beginning to think I'm way over my head.... So let me ask you guys this. If i go with a water chiller similar to the equipment used for the aquariums, i wouldn't need the peltier system but would the system react to the liquid coolant differently then that of water? I'm not sure if those chillers have a filter of some sort built into them. But the overall goal is to create way below ambient temperatures in the liquid. I'm not concerned about the tubes sweating as i intend on wrapping them with insulation to prevent the air from actually affecting the temps of the tubes. Another thought is if i use the iceprobe in the reservoir, what if i get say 2 or 3 of them and create mini reservoirs between the blocks so that each one is cooling the liquid and there isn't one probe trying to cool the liquid coming from both the GPU and the CPU... Think of it as an inline system, similar to the liquid passing through radiators, have it also then empty in to a small reservoir to be cooled further with the probes?

Cost and work alone, normally push yourself into the cost of a cheap phase unit. I think the lowest I've seen for an all in one, was in a PCA review for around $800.

The complete insulation of the board and such, normally is messy, and not daily driving kinda stuff. It took forever for me to get the dielectric grease out of my socket.

By the way, take your time typing, and get Firefox 2 or IE7, they have built in spell check.

You'll need a radiator. And I've got a little experience with this stuff to. If you want to go the DIY method try this. Buy a 12 pack Beer Cooler and some copper tubing that fits inside your clear tubing (10 ft. is plenty) and a valve the size of the copper tubing. Coil the copper tubing up so you have about 15 or 20 coils about 6 inches in diameter with straight ends about 6" long. Drill a hole at each end of the cooler for the ends of your coil (input/output) to stick thru. You want the coil to sit at the bottom of the cooler. Stick the ends of the coil thru your holes and silicone the remaining gap up so it won't leak. You also want to drill a drain hole the size of your copper tubing. You should have some extra copper tubing, connect your valve to the tubing (get a valve with compression fittings so no soldering is needed) and silicon it in the drain hole you drilled. Let the silicon dry over night and then fill up the cooler with water and check for leaks. Silicon any leaks you find. Once it's leak free hook it up to your water loop. Time to fill it up. Use enough water to cover up about 1 inch of the tubing and then fill the cooler up with a bag of ice. Leave about an inch of room at the top of the cooler. Your ready to go now. This setup will make a lot of condensation on every part of the waterloop, tubing, blocks and even the pump. Be prepared to insulate everything. You'll need to use dielectric grease in your cpu socket and it wouldn't hurt to spray all your parts with a silicon conformal coating like Chemtronics Fine-L-Cote SR Lubricants, Oil, Grease and Conformal Coatings

The bad part about this setup is you have to buy a bag of ice everyday. And you have to drain the excess water out everyday. When you really want to cool it add a layer of rock salt on top of the ice. You'll want to drain it and wash the cooler out after using rock salt. It will corrode the copper tubing after long exposure.

A final note, as the ice slowly melts and the cold water level rises your temps really start dropping. I ran this setup a few years ago and I've seen cpu temps in the low 40dF range. Once all the ice melts your temps will start to rise but Ive use a single bag of ice for 8 hours.

ok so obviously there are many different methods i can do this. Im just having a hard time why the same idea as having the resavoir stored in a mini fridge would not work... I bought this mini fridge on ebay and turned it on and it seems to get pretty cold, if were to use this fridge to store the resavoir and just have the tubings run to all the rest of the water cooling components, why wouldnt this work...
i digress, im starting to think i should just take the panels off this ugly box, paint them black and keep in my room and try a different method for cooling. Another idea i had was to take the radiators and mount them on teh from where the coldest air is located, and have an ice probe connected inline exhausting some hot air out with a second set of radiators. Its not going to achieve the results i wanted but i wouldnt have to worry much about condesation and the liquid cooling would run through so many radiators it wouldnt have a chance to heat up that much...

Otherwise i have to dish out the money for an aquarium chiller and try something unique with that.

Ok so i decided to take the water cooling kit and change the current kit in my system with this one. I bought a second 7950GX2 off ebay which also im adding water cooling to so the set. So the set up in my machine will be this, there are 2 radiators, the cpu block and quad gpu blocks (2 on each card), and an additional cpu block( ill explain what im going to try). Im going to set the system to run from the resavoir to the first radiator in to the first cpu block. THis cpu block is going to not be attached to the cpu but the cold side of the peltier plate i pulled from that mini fridge. From there it will route to the cpu's block. Then that will go to the next radiator where i will have a dual output, one for each card. and have that route back to the resavoir. I am hoping to achieve mediocre results from that single peltier plate cooling the liquid that passes through that cpu block. If it does work, i can easily remove it from the system and just leave the water cooling kit in tact.