Hey to car pimps...

Anybody know anything about water injection? Everything I could find kept tauting it's fuel economy benefits and increased power... seems like a cool idea, but I think I'd rather ask if it's a good idea or not before it's added to my "list of car stuff I wanna do".

Anybody have any experience with these things?

Here's the link I'm looking at: 3SX

As far as I know, it's a way to chill the incoming air in certain turbocharged engines. Cooler air = denser air = more oxygen to burn per volume. That way you can get more power out of the cylinders. But it's something you have to do very precisely, or it could really screw up your engine I'd think.

Sorta like overclocking on a computer.

Quote: Originally Posted by JCoyote As far as I know, it's a way to chill the incoming air in certain turbocharged engines. Cooler air = denser air = more oxygen to burn per volume. That way you can get more power out of the cylinders. But it's something you have to do very precisely, or it could really screw up your engine I'd think. Sorta like overclocking on a computer.

I thought that it was just that... but they're talking for benefits on N/A engines... I'm thinking of trying it.

Are you talking about Intercooling?

Quote: Originally Posted by Darksamurai I thought that it was just that... but they're talking for benefits on N/A engines... I'm thinking of trying it.

I might try it, but only if I already did a lot of other things to get those same benefits... like better carberators, fuel injectors and the like. If I had that stuff getting near a limit, then I might try water injection.

(Though if I REALLY wanted fuel economy as a car project, I'd be tempted to build my own hybrid. No reason it can't be done, in fact because a hybrid lacks a transmission and drive train, it could be pretty easy to make one... uh oh... I might have talked myself into something...)

I couldn't figure it out either...

I know some people spray their intercoolers with water to cool off the air, but I know if you don't have a turbo, you're not going to have any intercooler...

Quote: Originally Posted by FeRaL Are you talking about Intercooling?

No he's talking about water spray system the water goes straight into the intake manifold - it reduces the air fuel charge tempatures entering the cumbustion chamber and can reduce the piston top tempature by 100 degrees even. It reduces knocking/pre-ignition. Normally seen in race ready turbo/supercharged cars (running 16+ PSI) because they're obviously more prone to detonation. Sometimes found in naturally aspirated engines in an effort to run higher compression without use of high octane fuel.

All and all - unless you feel like stopping every 150 miles to fill a water jug for your car don't do it.

Water injection will actually reduce power, water displaces combustion space that could be used for more air and fuel. It also can cause a slight washing of the cylinders.

Like Iat has allready stated, It is nothing more than a band aid used to help high compression or supercharged engines survive with todays poor quality pump gas.

You would be much better off with a 9 to 1 compression and no water injection than trying to limp along with 11 to 1 compresion with reduced timing and water injection...

There is one option that some people have used, when mixed with around 50% Alchohol, it can restore most of the power lost by the water, and possibly a slight increase.

But for your naturally aspirated engine, skip it...get a 75-100 horse shot of N20, it should be able to handle it without hurting anything if used with common sense, any more than that and you will run into problems with the stock shortblock.

There's also the matter of water being in the combustion chamber...
water + heat = mad rust... I've seen the bores of engines that had water injection, and they were seriously ****ed up..

Quote: Originally Posted by Teranfirbt There's also the matter of water being in the combustion chamber... water + heat = mad rust... I've seen the bores of engines that had water injection, and they were seriously ****ed up..

On the other hand they've got near zero carbon build up. Poor man's cumbustion chamber cleaner - a few squirts of water out of a windex bottle into the carb/throttle body.

combustion of a hydrocarbon creates water and carbondioxide so i dont think that extra water from a spray system will add much to a rust problem
ive only known of water injection to be used with forced induction applications. cools intake temps and increases compression slightly is what ive heard.
an interesting thing is that modern engines take exaust gases and inject it into the intake for reduced emissions by controling the combustion more. if you have a newer ford you might have had to deal with a broken exaust gas return valve.

Quote: Originally Posted by $SOLID$ Necro Water injection will actually reduce power, water displaces combustion space that could be used for more air and fuel. It also can cause a slight washing of the cylinders. Like Iat has allready stated, It is nothing more than a band aid used to help high compression or supercharged engines survive with todays poor quality pump gas. You would be much better off with a 9 to 1 compression and no water injection than trying to limp along with 11 to 1 compresion with reduced timing and water injection... There is one option that some people have used, when mixed with around 50% Alchohol, it can restore most of the power lost by the water, and possibly a slight increase. But for your naturally aspirated engine, skip it...get a 75-100 horse shot of N20, it should be able to handle it without hurting anything if used with common sense, any more than that and you will run into problems with the stock shortblock.

Necro... on the whole, when it comes to cars, you're my hero.

Modern o_O?
The EGR valve has been around since the 70's when the states tightened up emissions laws..

Doesn't increase compression - it just lowers the piston temp/cylinder bowl temps so detonation is less likely. But with reduced cylinder tempatures, there is another power reduction in itself.

Quote: Originally Posted by Teranfirbt Modern o_O? The EGR valve has been around since the 70's when the states tightened up emissions laws..

Yeah, the EGR on my old '83 Mercury was shot as of about a year and a half ago. One of the reasons I have the car I do now...

Quote: Originally Posted by Iateronmly No he's talking about water spray system the water goes straight into the intake manifold - it reduces the air fuel charge tempatures entering the cumbustion chamber and can reduce the piston top tempature by 100 degrees even. It reduces knocking/pre-ignition. Normally seen in race ready turbo/supercharged cars (running 16+ PSI) because they're obviously more prone to detonation. Sometimes found in naturally aspirated engines in an effort to run higher compression without use of high octane fuel. All and all - unless you feel like stopping every 150 miles to fill a water jug for your car don't do it.

Okay, so you and Necro are my heroes

Don't know how I missed this one...

Thanks guys!

I can't tell you how many different configs of Mopar small blocks we have discussed over the years on IM for his Jeep

I know way more about em now than when I owned em, when it comes to Mopar, that boy is a cyber version of a walking encyclopedia

Some Engines Won't Run Properly Without This Feature, Really, (some Mazda Rotary).
The Mazda System Requires A Small Amount Of Ethyline Glycol, (antifreeze), To Function
Properly... The Water Mix Is Most Effective In Engines That Tend To Have A Carbon Build
Up... The Water Mix Turns To Steam, Effectively Cleaning The Combustion Chambers And
Exhaust. Just Don't Turn The Mix Ratio Up Too High Or It Has A Defeat Symptom...
Been There, Done That... Sincerely, Hopper....

Quote: Originally Posted by HOPPER Some Engines Won't Run Properly Without This Feature, Really, (some Mazda Rotary). The Mazda System Requires A Small Amount Of Ethyline Glycol, (antifreeze), To Function Properly... The Water Mix Is Most Effective In Engines That Tend To Have A Carbon Build Up... The Water Mix Turns To Steam, Effectively Cleaning The Combustion Chambers And Exhaust. Just Don't Turn The Mix Ratio Up Too High Or It Has A Defeat Symptom... Been There, Done That... Sincerely, Hopper....

If your having an issue of carbon buildup......then you have other issues that are going on, like running way too rich, idleing the vehicle too long, or oil being burned (bad rings or valve seals). You can get rid of alot of the buildup by just taking the vehcle on the expressway after it's warmed up and running it at about 70-80 mph for 15 mins......That's what we used to call "Blowing the $hit out of it"........I used to tell people to do this before they get an Emissions Test if they have alot of miles on their ride and haven't tuned it up in awhile in order to pass the test.........

ive seen alot of these water injection systems out at the tracks. ive never seen any one inject pure h20 though. all of the systems ive seen are 50%water, and 50% methanol. ive even seen these systems run on n/a engines as well. its not somthing that should be put on a daily driver. b/c you have to mix methanol (windsheild wiper fluid) and water at 50/50 and a 1 gallon resevoir will only last like 80 miles.

just my .02

trey