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Old 28-August-02, 01:50 AM   #1 (permalink)
Apex Techie I
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Default Difficult PC Problem

Difficult computer problem, not sure what is wrong.

OK, here goes...

About three months ago I purchased a PC from iBuypower.com and have since been having some difficulties.

The problem is thus: During different tasks I completely crash, the computer just restarts for no reason. It is never just in windows, the only places it has occured are in numerous games, the install of one game, and once in a while performing a disk cleanup. It occurs randomly, which is why it is so incredibly annoying. One day I can have a fine computer, the next, not so. And by the time I get so frustrated, it appears to be working fine. By now, you're probably wondering about my specs...
VIA KT-333 Motherboard
Leadtek Winfast GeForce Ti4600
512 MB RAM
Creative Soundblaster Audigy Platinum Ex souncard
Maxtor 40 GB Harddrive
WDC 80 GB Harddrive
HP CD-Writer Plus 9300
ISE DVD-ROM 16X
Realtek Ethernet 10/100 card
Viewsonic E90fb Monitor
HP Printer, 880C
Windows XP

The 40GB is a spare, and is NTFS, annoying, because every time I boot up, XP wants to check it, but can't. That's another story.
The 80 is FAT.

The real problem is how unpredictable it is. If it only happened with one game that I was told I could never run, fine. I can deal with that, but it seems to just reboot in any game i play.

On one game, I've been playing for the past few days with no problem, but now all of a sudden that I plug in a USB device (the joystick) I'm getting more reoccuring crashes tonight than I've gotten in a while.

Another strange fact, (I probably have a million of these, and only one is the true problem), I never experience a real crash if my air conditioner is on full blast. I barely ever have it on full, so it could be attributed to that, but I've told my friends my temps and they don't think they're that extraordinarily high.

I haven't overclocked anything.

I have all new drivers.

My friends think its my video card because it occurs during games, but now that I see it when I do disk cleanups, I doubt that is the issue.

Any responses are much appreciated, I like to get feedback from others.
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Old 28-August-02, 09:11 AM   #2 (permalink)
BZA
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have you tried a windows update? not to patronize you, but try going to microsoft.com, and clicking your way to the windows update page and see what it finds.

have you updated your VIA 4-in-1 drivers?

is the game that is crashing with the USB joystick BF1942 by any chance?

that game doesnt like USB on some systems...no explanation, just an annoying fact.

does windows XP give you an error message when it comes back to life?

if so, what does it say?
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Old 28-August-02, 04:40 PM   #3 (permalink)
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With Win 2K and XP, computers don't "reboot for no reason". It's a setting in My Computer>Properties>Advanced>Startup & Recovery that's always on by default. Basically, when your system suffers a BSOD or otherwise serious hardware conflict (IRQ conflict or device driver/software trying to access a hardware device at the wrong time), it simply reboots instead of showing the blue screen of death.

Myself, and especially here at work, we ALWAYS disable this feature, so we can SEE the BSOD. Sometimes that's a lot more useful in finding the problem than just coming back to a computer an hour later, looking at it sitting at the desktop, and wondering, "Gee, wasn't Premiere supposed to be looping that movie over lunch?".

Now, not to dis on people who've tried to help you out (and helping out others on here) by suggesting to "update Windows" and "install the latest VIA 4-in-1's", that's good advice--but I'm pretty certain that WON'T solve IRQ conflicts. And if it does, you just got lucky...and the problem will probably reoccur later.

Check your second POST screen and hit pause/break, and see what device ID's are using what IRQs. I'm guessing your USB is sharing with something. You probably have lots of things sharing. You can also get good info by Start>Programs>Accessories>System Tools>System Information>Hardware Resources>IRQs, and you could copy & post what you find here.

Removing IRQ conflicts is best done in hardware; by pulling PCI cards out and switching them around in different slots, POSTing, seeing what's changed, reading your manual to find the Interrupt Sharing table, manually reserving IRQs in BIOS to prevent them from sharing, and so on. It might take an hour of reboots, but once you finally get them to stop sharing IRQs as much as possible, I'd virtually guarantee your reboots would stop.

Good luck!
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Old 28-August-02, 06:19 PM   #4 (permalink)
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BZA: I have new drivers for everything, and always update my windows stuff, but you're right, Sometimes in BF1942 I crash to desktop with the USB joystick, but that isn't nearly annoying as the reboot I get with it and other games sometimes...

Coelacanth: I disabled that XP/2K feature to reboot. If I had known that was a feature, It would've been gone, because atleast if i got a BSOD, I'd have some kind of satisfaction . As to My IRQs, they're as follows...

IRQ 0 System timer OK
IRQ 1 Standard 101/102-Key or Microsoft Natural PS/2 Keyboard OK
IRQ 3 Communications Port (COM2) OK
IRQ 4 Communications Port (COM1) OK
IRQ 5 MPU-401 Compatible MIDI Device OK
IRQ 6 Standard floppy disk controller OK
IRQ 8 System CMOS/real time clock OK
IRQ 9 Microsoft ACPI-Compliant System OK
IRQ 10 VIA Rev 5 or later USB Universal Host Controller OK
IRQ 10 Universal Serial Bus (USB) Controller OK
IRQ 10 Creative SB Audigy OK
IRQ 10 VIA Rev 5 or later USB Universal Host Controller OK
IRQ 10 VIA Rev 5 or later USB Universal Host Controller OK
IRQ 11 NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4600 OK
IRQ 11 VIA Rev 5 or later USB Universal Host Controller OK
IRQ 11 OHCI Compliant IEEE 1394 Host Controller OK
IRQ 11 Realtek RTL8139 Family PCI Fast Ethernet NIC OK
IRQ 11 Multimedia Audio Controller OK
IRQ 12 PS/2 Compatible Mouse OK
IRQ 13 Numeric data processor OK
IRQ 14 Primary IDE Channel OK
IRQ 15 Secondary IDE Channel OK

10 and 11 obviously share too much, and, like you said, I'd need to do it hardware wise, because I've yet to find XP letting me change IRQs... This morning I also got Audigy drivers released on the 26th of August, so I'll see if that helps.

So, to sum it up. BZA, I now know I'm not insane for BF1942 crashing to desktop . Coel, That turning back on BSOD is EXTREMELY helpful... If you have any more advice on what to do with my IRQs, it too is much appreciated. I really just want my Sound and Graphics cards on their own IRQs, because, in the past, those are what have given me the most problems on all of my computers. All of my PCI slots, though, seem to be on eather 10 or 11.
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Old 28-August-02, 06:24 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Dude, with those stats, you might be overheating...

Other thing could possibly be underpowered. What PSU you got?

Also, I used NTFS for both of my drives, and haven't had a days problem.
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Old 28-August-02, 07:02 PM   #6 (permalink)
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You're sound card and video card are sharing TONS of IRQs. On my system my sound card and video card share the same IRQ and it runs fine. With your system, it's rebooting during games would make a lot of sense here.

I think if you go through the trouble Coel was talking about and re-arranging your PCI cards you can get rid of those IRQ conflicts and your reboot problems. Also remember that BF1942 is a demo right now, so it's got some bugs. I've had it knock me to the desktop once or twice, but never reboot, so I think Coel would be correct in saying this sounds like an IRQ conflict and your info seems to show that quite well. Rearrange some of your PCI cards and see how it goes.

Also, what are your temps BTW? Power supply could be the thing, but usually it only reboots when you ask for too much power at one time. This sometimes causes random reboots, but you notice it more when you turn on a seperate device (In my case it was a CC).
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Old 28-August-02, 07:15 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Gathered some info...

425 Watt PSU @ 12V..
Idle Temps
System: 42C
CPU: 51C
I know, kind of high... I didn't think they were extremely high. Not a blazing inferno in there...
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Old 28-August-02, 08:40 PM   #8 (permalink)
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51C?

That's 123.8 degrees F... that's a little warm... and that's only if you're mobo temp sensor is correct...
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Old 28-August-02, 10:55 PM   #9 (permalink)
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OK, New News....
With Coel's advice, I turned off the automatic reboot, and I finally got a BSOD. (For the first time in my life I'm ECSTATIC I got a BSOD, for the fact that it now tells me my true problem.
The Blue Screen said thus:
DRIVER_IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL
Then it mentioned the file it was referring to, ctaud2k (A Creative audio driver file.
Some of you guys suggested changing around card positions, but I wonder how that would help, as you saw on my IRQ list, ALL PCI cards are on eather 10 or 11, and I have no PCI space left.

EDIT:
I just switched it so the audio and graphics are both on 11, and the network is on 10, I'll see how it goes.

Last edited by Amatsu; 28-August-02 at 11:23 PM..
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Old 29-August-02, 12:30 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Yep, you got IRQ conflicts galore. That's one of the things I hate most about Win XP, how it supposedly has these "Virtual IRQs" and plug 'n' play works so much better and there's no more crashes and...BULLSH*T. M$ is just HIDING the BSODs by making the system reboot automatically.

Now, from your SysInfo, your USB is a major contributor to your problems, not a big surprise since you notice lockups when connecting USB.

-Disable the USB in BIOS and see if you continue to have problems. Do you NEED all those USB controllers (there's usually 2 per IRQ)? If you're not using the standard and/or USB 2.0 controllers, disable what you're not using.

-I notice that your mobo has onboard audio and it seems that you haven't disabled it! You're using a 3rd party soundcard AND your onboard audio! Bad bad bad! Disable that onboard ASAP if it's enabled.
"IRQ 11 Multimedia Audio Controller OK"
"IRQ 5 MPU-401 Compatible MIDI Device OK" These two look like your onboard audio components.

-Once you've disabled the onboard audio, can you try and get your Audigy to use IRQ 5? Since olden days, that was the typical soundcard IRQ.

-Your NIC is fine on 11, your AGP card on 10 (or vice versa, as long as both aren't on the same).

-Is the 1394 controller on the SB Audigy? Most mobos don't have onboard 1394, but some do...if yours doesn't, see if you can somehow disable the Audigy's 1394 port. Not sure how to do that, but I'm sure you'll find a way at Creative's site.

Let us know your progress.
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Old 29-August-02, 12:34 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Oh, and you might have to set the "Plug 'n' Play OS" option in BIOS to "No" if it's set to "Yes". Also look for an option to "Assign IRQ/Resources Automatically" and set that to "No", too. That way you can reserve IRQs to prevent added PCI cards from using them. You will probably have to futz around with it for an hour or two, but you'll finally start to figure out how your particular mobo is sharing it's interrupts, and should be able to get a decent configuration. You probably won't even have to reinstall drivers, because Windows will store them in memory (or in C:\Windows\System32\Drivers, or C:\Windows\System; point to either folder if Windows 'forgets' where a particular device driver file is; or, you can simply reinsert the manufacturer's CD too).
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Old 29-August-02, 01:07 AM   #12 (permalink)
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The MIDI device (I'm pretty sure) Is my external Audigy Ex box (Not worth the extra money I spent, I'm not a DJ or anything. The 1394 is on that though, Good to have I guess. I will disable that other thing though, because I'm pretty sure that's onboard audio... After doing the switch I did earlier, I haven't gotten a crash yet (Keeping my fingers crossed for the future...) Until things stop going well, I'll slow down on the working in the BIOS... Going to play tonight and see if I get a crash. If it ain't broke, don't fix it . Thanks to everyone though, this problem I've had for three months (for now) seems to be solved. I guess I can blame it on Ibuypower for bad card placement, but it's equally my fault for wanting those 4 extra USB ports .

Thanks a billion. Back to BF1942 for now...
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