I recently upgraded my main system to an athlon Xp3000+ CPU, mounted on a Gigabyte GA-7n400 Pro 2 motherboard, 785 MB PC 3200 DDR RAM, NVIDA Geoforce FX 5600 Ultra Video Card, DVD...SCSI...firewire...scads of HDD space...yadda yadda.

Groovy black case...neon...mad case fans...pimpin' rig.

I call it the Fujimoto 5000.

Swell. This is obviously a gaming system and this morning I was playing Halo, happily kicking some high resolution Covenant ass when upon finishing I noticed my CPU core had been consistently been running at 65C for some time. Not disastrously hot, but far too hot for a machine that is meant to be on all the time. I decided to replace the OMD Heatsink/fan with a Cooler Master Jet 7. Well, there had been tape - no thermal grease applied with the original heatsink (For the first time in my life I let a retailer build the machine). I decided to apply some Arctic silver 5 to the CPU core, as reccomended. Well, don't ask me how this happened, but for whatever reason - perhaps I pressed a wee bit too hard as I was wracked by an ill timed sneeze (damn flu) - SPOINK! A HUGE blob of the infernal goo fell out, more than covering the core, in fact an alarming portion of the CPU itself.

Okay, no sweat. I cleaned the crap off as best I could with iso, Q Tips, lint free cloth, the usual. I have a Duron I picked up from a foolish friend who slathered grease over the sides of the core like pancake batter, and after a thorough cleaning it works normally. Well, I PROPERLY reapply the grease, install the gear, fire up the system, and after perhaps 20 seconds, the 'CPU Error' beep starts, and the system shuts off.

Mildly alarmed, I assumed the problem had something to do with heat, since it had operated normally (if a little hot) before the tube of Arctic Silver vomited all over it. I turned it on again after a few minutes, and entered the BIOS setup just long enough to see the CPU core temperature reach 98 Celsius.

That's right, I could have boiled myself a cup of tea on that bad boy. I screamed like a girl and was just reaching out to yank the cord out of the wall when it mercifully shut itself down.

I have again cleaned the CPU as best I can, but you can clearly see discoloration where the compound has stained the surface of the CPU. Two subsequent attempts to operate the CPU have yielded the same result after repeated cleanings. I enter the BIOS, check the core temperature and have to shut down immediately because the core is running hotter than a supernova.

Two things:

Yes, it was REAL Arctic Silver, and not that knockoff Chinese stuff made with silver oxide.

Also, I feel I can effectively rule out the remaining system components. I have since slapped on the aforementioned Duron 750 to the motherboard and am writing this post on that configuration. I just won't be playing Halo with it.

My poor, poor Athlon.

Anyone have any ideas? I suspect I am going to have to just pony up the C-Bills for a new CPU. Any suggestions, solutions or thoughts would be appreciated.

It's obvious, the sink was not reapplied correctly.

You sure you had the heatsink orriented properly? Make sure it isnt hitting the ledge. You dont need much AS5, and I would smooth it with a credit card.

EDIT: Welcome to PR

Quote: Originally Posted by BigAkita It's obvious, the sink was not reapplied correctly.

I appreciate your response.

However, I would respectfully dispute your assesment.

Reapplying the heatsink is a pretty simple process, and if I've done it once, I've done it two hundred times. It is either clearly on, latched down and in the correct position over the CPU, or it is not. Much like the CPU itself (now that the 80's are gone and the pins are now arranged to make installing pin 1 backward inpossible), assuming one is sober and experienced with computer equipment, it is virtually impossible to install incorrectly.

It is, however, quite concievable that a highly heat conductive compound that bonds on the molecular level improperly applied to a highly heat sensitive semiconductor **might** lend itself to rapid overheating, even after being cleaned off. In fact, Arctic Silver's website warns of this possibility quite explicitly.

As I mentioned, I am sitting in front of the exact same system at the moment, with a different processor that has seen service on multiple motherboards.

I sort of expected a few off the cuff responses, but what I am really trying to find out is if anyone has had any experiences with excess of thermal paste and any possible remedies.

Again, my appreciation to anyone who can relate an experience in this area.

I always appreciate a member who can take criticism well, and also speak well. Many of our members seem to have forgotten that English is actually a language to communicate with. Your linguistic ability shows me that you are not dim-witted, nor are you beyond the capacity to learn.

Therefore, I offer these suggestions: What you described are the classic signs of a burnt CPU. If you are sure that your sink was mounted correctly, I would check the voltage of the mobo.

Most importantly, if you are able to reboot and actually see your temps in the bios, your chip is not fried. You have other problems, more than likely attributed to a bad bios setup.

As far as your "molecular level" compound application theory is concerned, I would let that one go. Again, If your CPU is booting to where you can actually read the temp at 98C, it ain't dead.

Check here and make sure that you are appling the AS5 correctly.

And by the way "Welcome to PR."

Quote: Originally Posted by BigAkita I always appreciate a member who can take criticism well, and also speak well. Many of our members seem to have forgotten that English is actually a language to communicate with. Your linguistic ability shows me that you are not dim-witted, nor are you beyond the capacity to learn. Therefore, I offer these suggestions: What you described are the classic signs of a burnt CPU. If you are sure that your sink was mounted correctly, I would check the voltage of the mobo. Most importantly, if you are able to reboot and actually see your temps in the bios, your chip is not fried. You have other problems, more than likely attributed to a bad bios setup. As far as your "molecular level" compound application theory is concerned, I would let that one go. Again, If your CPU is booting to where you can actually read the temp at 98C, it ain't dead.

Thanks for taking an interest in my post. It is always flattering when the moderator jumps on your post, it shows that the forum is well maintained and closely observed.

Believe me, although I have worked tech on computers for many years, nobody can know everything! That's why we have forums! sooner or later you're going to run into something freaky. So please, now or if we speak again in the future, please don't hesitate to offer whatever advice you feel comfortable with.

Although it sounds like you are somewhat cynical about past experiences with some less than constructive souls? *LOL*

I always initially assume people mean no disrespect, and I of course, try to speak the same way to others.

Anyhow, here's where I am at this point:

You are, of course, quite correct about the probable CPU condition...but I am glad you mentioned MB voltage. I actually am posting in several forums at once, and I mentioned a moment ago to somene that what struck me as peculiar is that for the few moments I had the system running, although the core temp was radically high, the voltage appeared normal!

Furthermore, although the Duron I am using on the setup now has slightly different requirements than the Athlon, not only is it funtioning within normal operating parameters, but so was the Athlon before the goo incident.

I suppose that's the reason I am focused on the goo, because the CPU was functioning normally just before that, just slightly hot.

Some will say that OEM cooling solutions for contemporary AMD processors are inadequate, but this is not my first Athlon - or Athlon Barton, and I have never had any issues, with goo, or with processors that run acceptably with heat tape.

Basically, Akita...(should I call you that? *LOL*) I am prepared to write off the processor if need be and replace it, but I am trying to troubleshoot in advance.

Let me throw this up in the air...most people I have spoken with using a similar setup to mine say they are running core temps between 42 and 55 Celsius under normal use conditions (meaning not idle, of course), even with OEM sinks and fans. I suppose it could simply have been a defective processor BUT...

Since the catastrophic failure immediately happened after the goo incident, are you certain you are not aware of situations where an overabundance of thermal grease might have resulted in similar operation? Perhaps it is because of my profession that I focus so much on hardcore troubleshooting! I would prefer to come as close as possible to pinpointing the initial failure before I try to repeat the same operation.

Is there...and I admit I am not as familiar with the internal construction of the newer AMD and Intel processors as with previous generations...is there perhaps an internal function of the Barton processors that if it failed...would somehow allow the processor to retain such an excess of heat under otherwise normal operating conditions? Forgive me if i did not state that clearly, but now that I have finally encountered a situation I cannot unravel, I am eager to dig into it.

Again, thanks for your interest.

you said you just installed a new heatsink? is this the first use of this heatsink? did you get the 1/100,000,000 luck of getting the one that had a warped bottom doubtful i know but maybe

Quote: Originally Posted by Slick2145 Check here and make sure that you are appling the AS5 correctly. And by the way "Welcome to PR."

Thanks! Despite the untimely demise of my Barton today I have had a great time talking Geek Tech with everyone.

However, if you were trying to post a URL I am not sure it posted correctly.

And...I can assure you...i did NOT apply the AS5 correctly..because - no joke - I contracted the flu a few days ago and sneezed violently as I applied it. GLOP! i dropped a HUGE wad of the crap all over the CPU core and Processor.

However, I have seen this happen before and successfuly cleaned it. The Duron I am using now (I realize it has lower power requirements) is running on the same system and was subjected to the same conditions by a previous owner. I sure appreciate your input though...let me ask you this...although I have worked on PC's for a long time, I have to tell you this is baffling me...it may simply be a faulty processor but the fact that it was working normally before the goo incident perplexes me, and the fact that even though it was running 98C it was showing normal voltage is strange!

Let me ask you this...although it has been said that OEM cooling, specifically on AMD processors are inferior, I have not had trouble with my Xp2400, my XP 1600, or the trusty yet inferior Duron, despite their differing power requirements.

I considered going with a liquid cooling system before I bought the CM. Frankly, here's why I bought the CM despite the conspicuously low fan RPM...

It pulls air to the side rather than blowing it downward. Many will disagree with me because of the low fan RPM and the arrangement of the heatsink but I will insist this makes more sense than blowing the largely still and hot air in the case downward onto the CPU. I set it up so that it works in tandem with my primary chassis fan (3200 RPM) in the rear, and they both carry warm air out of the chassis, and I have a front fan (3200 RPM) pulling in cooler air from outside the case.

I think it works fairly well because the ambient temp in the case is BELOW 40c.

Nice, but I am of course, open to any and all suggestions.

However, i was considering a liquid system before this mess started. I really did not consider it necessary on a 3000 because I know lots of people who run similar systems with OEm cooling who had lower temp readings than the CPU I had.

Have you had experience with liquid cooling?

Quote: Originally Posted by Roybatty Since the catastrophic failure immediately happened after the goo incident, are you certain you are not aware of situations where an overabundance of thermal grease might have resulted in similar operation? Perhaps it is because of my profession that I focus so much on hardcore troubleshooting! I would prefer to come as close as possible to pinpointing the initial failure before I try to repeat the same operation.

Well, my guess would be if the Paste had made contact between certain bridges on the wafer part of the CPU, it could have some weird results.
A known trick on these CPU's back in the day was to use Silver paint to connect certain Bridges to unlock the Multipliers.
(Aren't there small lasercut holes that the Arctiv Silver could have gotten in?)

Back before I got into this, I heard it was common to short a CPU with the real Silver based Paste.
That is part of why AMD is fussy about the paste used on the CPU's (Arctic Silver voids the warranty)

BA's point I think is most likely the CPU would have died if you shorted the bridges with Paste, not just act weird.
Yours is still Posting into the bios you said, so its not dead, so he was saying you have the classic "Overtemped CPU" syndrome.
It's a very slim chance that the paste got into something it shouldn't have, given the symptoms you listed. (Discolored die)

AMD rates these CPU's for a max of 70c, and most Bios temps are inacurate anyways, so your temps might have been even higher than you think.....
Someone (Review sight ) tested an AMD XP and a P-4 by removing the HSF, the AMD Fried in seconds (Looked ugly too!)

The Intel just throttled down its speed and stayed cool, and was just fine when the HSF was reinstalled....

EDIT: a Zalman or other premium HSF is all you need for good temps and quiet running, I am at 2.3ghz and 41c (load) and 31c (Idle) from a XP2400 with the Zalman CNPS7000A-ALCu, and its the quietest fan in my case...LOL

Watercooling is generally for extreme performance, but you can do it anyways if you like...
There are many Water Cooling Pimps here

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Quote: Originally Posted by $SOLID$ Necro Well, my guess would be if the Paste had made contact between certain bridges on the wafer part of the CPU, it could have some weird results. A known trick on these CPU's back in the day was to use Silver paint to connect certain Bridges to unlock the Multipliers. (Aren't there small lasercut holes that the Arctiv Silver could have gotten in?) Back before I got into this, I heard it was common to short a CPU with the real Silver based Paste. That is part of why AMD is fussy about the paste used on the CPU's (Arctic Silver voids the warranty) BA's point I think is most likely the CPU would have died if you shorted the bridges with Paste, not just act weird. Yours is still Posting into the bios you said, so its not dead, so he was saying you have the classic "Overtemped CPU" syndrome. It's a very slim chance that the paste got into something it shouldn't have, given the symptoms you listed. (Discolored die) AMD rates these CPU's for a max of 70c, and most Bios temps are inacurate anyways, so your temps might have been even higher than you think..... Someone (Review sight ) tested an AMD XP and a P-4 by removing the HSF, the AMD Fried in seconds (Looked ugly too!) The Intel just throttled down its speed and stayed cool, and was just fine when the HSF was reinstalled.... EDIT: a Zalman or other premium HSF is all you need for good temps and quiet running, I am at 2.3ghz and 42c (load) from a XP2400. Watercooling is generally for extreme performance, but you can do it anyways if you like...there are many Water Cooling Pimps here

Well, I tell you what...I have gotten some great feedback from everyone...I think that I will try the Xp again with the OEM HSF. As you said, WITHOUT an HSF, an AMD S7 CPU should fry almost immediately. (Actually, that would be coll to witness on somene ELSE'S machine...)

I am really thinking I just got a rare bad CPU. Seriously. But I will tell you...I am passionate about replacing or resolving my Xp3000 issue because i HAVE an XP 2400...and it works fine.

It is an excellent CPU...but the subtle difference in gaming performance is palpable.

And thanks for the edit! I was reading when Zam! It updated!

You say you bought from a store(edit... err i mean the system as a whole )? If you can't fix it you might just be able to return it, a much better choice then spend an extra few c-notes to buy the same product. I did this to a pentium 1.4 a year or 2 ago same discoloring happened but i just cleaned it off with a moist qtip, IT WAS NOT VERY MOIST, like 1 drop of water should do it. After I had cleaned it with a couple of dry qtip's

Quote: Originally Posted by Roybatty Well, I tell you what...I have gotten some great feedback from everyone...I think that I will try the Xp again with the OEM HSF. As you said, WITHOUT an HSF, an AMD S7 CPU should fry almost immediately. (Actually, that would be coll to witness on somene ELSE'S machine...) I am really thinking I just got a rare bad CPU. Seriously. But I will tell you...I am passionate about replacing or resolving my Xp3000 issue because i HAVE an XP 2400...and it works fine. It is an excellent CPU...but the subtle difference in gaming performance is palpable. And thanks for the edit! I was reading when Zam! It updated!

So you never go into windows with this CPU ever, and other CPU's work fine on the board...Definitely try to RMA that CPU if you don't have any luck getting it working.
Good Luck

Here is a Pic and a Link for that Fried AMD

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Quote: Originally Posted by Roybatty Thanks! Despite the untimely demise of my Barton today I have had a great time talking Geek Tech with everyone. However, if you were trying to post a URL I am not sure it posted correctly. And...I can assure you...i did NOT apply the AS5 correctly..because - no joke - I contracted the flu a few days ago and sneezed violently as I applied it. GLOP! i dropped a HUGE wad of the crap all over the CPU core and Processor.

Well I apologize that you didn't see the link. If you click on the "here" in my previous post it was the hyperlink and would have opened a new window with the link. Never the less here is that link http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_s...structions.htm. This is the instuctional provided by Artic Silver so it should be of help.

wow solid whoever wasted money on that proc either got there money + some in return from advertising sales or they are just plain silly.

Quote: Originally Posted by Evil3lf wow solid whoever wasted money on that proc either got there money + some in return from advertising sales or they are just plain silly.

It was Toms Hardware Guide...

They hate AMD anyways,all benchmarks and reviews are HEAVILY slanted to Intel, I reluctantly posted that link above
I used to go to that place when I was a Noob...

So I'm sure they were just Giddy to post a pic like that....

Quote: Originally Posted by Evil3lf You say you bought from a store(edit... err i mean the system as a whole )? If you can't fix it you might just be able to return it, a much better choice then spend an extra few c-notes to buy the same product. I did this to a pentium 1.4 a year or 2 ago same discoloring happened but i just cleaned it off with a moist qtip, IT WAS NOT VERY MOIST, like 1 drop of water should do it. After I had cleaned it with a couple of dry qtip's

You da man. Seriously. You know as well as I do it takes cajones to grab a bottle of ISO, some Q-Tips, and strike that stuff off your CPU.

But no, what happened here is this:

Two years ago I bought a retail system that failed after 48 hours. Up to that point I had bought components and assembled them myself since probably 1990, back when the savings was better than now. I can tell you that doing it yourself is still cheaper, but resale on custom PC's is zilch compared to what it used to be. I used to routinely build systems for 450$ and sell them for more than twice that.

In 1991 I seriously knew pushers who made less than me.

Now, I can still build a kick ass system for less than $600 but I can't sell it for a profit to anyone who isn't a total moron.

This is because I DO have morals. You CANNOT skimp on gear, if you want it to work well, and i guess you may say that's rich coming from someone who used a CM Jet 7 in their rig, but I used it for a good reason.

And evil, you bet mein froind... I will certainly RMA if I I need to. BUT...some quite friendly and knowledgeable people here have suggested a few tricks I will try...

It really isn't life or death...the only thing I cannot do with this Duron 750 is game hardcore...but I build PC's for people to this day and tell them, that they can spend as little money as possible and still get a great system. I mean really, the average Joe can get someone like me to build a full system for them at about $550 -$600, and I make almost no profit.

But that's if you're just sending email, surfing and doing your taxes.

Me, I just love games.

But for the other things I use my gear for, I really don't need the latest and greatest.

In fact, someone tell me I am full of it if they wish, but let me ask...my Athlon 2400 is in a slick black case, neon looking all Fast and Furious, mid tower with 3 case fans, CR RW, SCSI, NVIDIA GEoforce 64, blah blah...

I am not trying to be immodest...as I told a friend recently who owns a Mustang Cobra, it isnt YOU, that's cool, it's the car.

Same with PC's.

That 2400 is a bad PC, and it does what I want, which is make me money. But it does not game as well as the 3000 did.

It actually runs at a higher clock speed, but I swear the FSB speed makes a subtle difference. So does the faster DDR...

Have you checked out our Cool Case Gallery yet? If your case is that nice, you should post it there. Check out some of our other member's rigs while your at it.

Just out of curiosity:

Hit that proc with rubbing alchohol and a toothbrush, quit pissing around with the q-tips. Be firm but gentle. I assure you it is safe.

Wait 1/2 an hour to ensure every thing is dry.

Do a full CMOS clear and battery pull and try it again.

Okay, you all may be glad to know the Mighty Fujimoto 5000 is now functioning. I swapped the HSF completely with an OEM from another rig, and most importantly, I scrubbed the hell out of the CPU again, with a toothbrush as reccomended.

However, it is still operating, hovering around 60C. I'll probably go out today and try to pick up a better HSF combo than the OEM.