Quote: Originally Posted by Zoya Looking forward to learning from the pros here.I'm currently taking a pc repair class at college and built my first Lian-Li PC. Looking to hot rod one as soon as my brain fills up with knowledge and my purse with money...Zoya

Welcome to pcApex Zoya stick around the welcome wagon should be coming soon...

What color's your purse?

Welcome to pcApex!!
Stick around and you'll have a load a' fun!

Mobz

Quote: Originally Posted by MRMOBEUS Welcome to pcApex!! Stick around and you'll have a load a' fun! Mobz

Thanks. I can't get over how complete and well done this site is. I may be too excited to sleep tonight. May have to get a second job to finance everything in my head. Life is good...Zoya

Welcome to Apex!

What kind of budget are you looking at? and is this for games, general computing, overclocking, modding or all of the above?

A basic "Module" of Motherboard, CPU, Ram, Video Card that will game well and OC decently starts around 600$ and does not include a Hard drive, Case, or aftermarket cooling.


84$ Intel Core 2 Duo 1.8GHZ (1MB cache Per Core)
Newegg.com - Intel Dual-Core E2160 Allendale 1.8GHz 1MB L2 Cache LGA 775 Processor - Retail

110$ Gigabyte Motherboard (P-35 Chipset!)
Newegg.com - GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3L LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail

75$ 2GB DDR-2 800 (G-Skill)
Newegg.com - G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail

280$ XFX 8800GTS 320MB
Newegg.com - XFX PVT80GGHF4 GeForce 8800GTS 320MB 320-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported HDCP Video Card - Retail

75$ 470 watt PC Power& cooling power supply
Newegg.com - PC Power & Cooling Silencer 470 ATX ATX12V Ver 2.2 470W Power Supply 100 - 240 V UL, cUL, CE, CB, RoHS - Retail

That is the "Min Spec" for something I'd build today..the CPU should OC to 2.7-3.0GHZ with stock cooling, the video card and ram will also do rather well for OC.

Upgrading the CPU for something realy "Speedy" that has 2 to 4MB cache per core, or even a "Quad Core" can add another 100-200$ to the bottom line, but won't drastically improve framerates (Like doubling them) but will give a nice bump..and an overall improvement in other apps.

Same goes for the rest..a higher output power supply would also be advised if you go above what I listed..around 600 watts should be plenty form a good company, don't be fooled by the cheap brands advertised ratings.

Power Supply Myths Exposed!

Let me try to remember everything about my current machine. I have anIS7 series motherboard with a 3.2 Pentium 4 CPU, 2 gigs Corsair ram, 200 gig Western Digital Hard drive, and a high end video card (I don't remember the specs but it cost me a bundle a couple years ago).I love my Lian-Li case also. My power supply is 430w . It does most everything I want and plays DOOM 3 well, but the temp runs a bit high.
In my head I would start my next build with the same type case more or less. I would like a 120mm fan up top.I'm thinking I might like an audio card this time around for a better sound. I tend to like the higher end video cards as I do a lot of photo faking as a hobby.I plan on customizing my case this time around. Is a dual core processor the way to go? Will I need a bigger power supply? I'm also thinking of a fan controller to fit in one of my 5.25 bays. My machine tends to run a bit hotter than I like (with 4 80 mm fans + power supply fan and CPU fan). It will probably be early spring before I commence and I'm trying to figure out things early. More research and less goof ups. As for money, I'll do it one piece at a time until it's done right. Thanks for your input guys.

Quote: Originally Posted by Zoya Let me try to remember everything about my current machine. I have anIS7 series motherboard with a 3.2 Pentium 4 CPU, 2 gigs Corsair ram, 200 gig Western Digital Hard drive, and a high end video card (I don't remember the specs but it cost me a bundle a couple years ago).I love my Lian-Li case also. My power supply is 430w . It does most everything I want and plays DOOM 3 well, but the temp runs a bit high. In my head I would start my next build with the same type case more or less. I would like a 120mm fan up top.I'm thinking I might like an audio card this time around for a better sound. I tend to like the higher end video cards as I do a lot of photo faking as a hobby.I plan on customizing my case this time around. Is a dual core processor the way to go? Will I need a bigger power supply? I'm also thinking of a fan controller to fit in one of my 5.25 bays. My machine tends to run a bit hotter than I like (with 4 80 mm fans + power supply fan and CPU fan). It will probably be early spring before I commence and I'm trying to figure out things early. More research and less goof ups. As for money, I'll do it one piece at a time until it's done right. Thanks for your input guys.

Your CPU may be from the "Presscott" family of P-4's, and they run alot hotter than an older "Northwood" P-4...wich may have something to do with your high temps.

CPUZ can tell you lots of info about your CPU (Family, speeds, voltage, etc) and the other tabs can tell you more specific details of your motherboard and ram.

CPUID

Another program (Recently released) called "GPUZ" will give you detailed infor on your video card.

GPU-Z Video card GPU Information Utility


Having a 120MM fan on the top like you mentioned would probably help the temps a bit, make sure it is blowing "Out" to help the heat escape, cince heat rises, and that is right above what is typically the hottest part of a case.

Just remember that cases need to be "Balanced" so that your airflow goes in the proper direction...the one in the front should be an Intake, and flow into the case, the one at the back should flow out for exhaust...that is how they were designed.

Fans on the side panel of the case next to the CPU and video card can go either direction, but typically flowing in is best, testing is the only way to tell for sure.


Generally, it's best to have more exhaust than intake flow, having 3 fans blowing in and only one blowing out is not a good idea in general...the oppsoite (3 exh and one in) generally works better.

I pioneered using a realy large fan on the side panel for cases a few years ago, and it seems to have caught on...it's perfect for keeping those "Quad Core" high end video cards (Especially sith dual cards in SLI or Crossfire mode)

Search: 250MM fan - FrozenCPU.com *

There are many cases with this design in that link, plus many versions of just the fan if you want to add one to your current case.

I kinda like this one for a bit over 100$ if your in the market for a new case.



Aerocool ExtremEngine 3T w/ 250mm Side Fan - SILVER - FrozenCPU.com


Almost all newer games show a benefit from dual cores, and many other software apps (Especially photoshop) love dual cores, and even Quad cores!

Having a Dual Core CPU with lots of "On die cache" is great for games and Photoshop...think of it as having a stick of ram right on the CPU iteslf!

The low end Core 2 Duo CPu's have 1 MB each (2 total) like the one I linked to in my previous post.

The midrange and high end CPU's have 2MB each...4MB total on dual cores, and 8MB on Quad Cores!

The soon to be released next gen Intel CPU's will have 3MB per core, giving you 6MB for Dual cores, and a staggering 12MB on a Quad!

Lots of ram, along with large cache dual or quad CPU makes Photoshop FLY!

A "Dream Rig" for you would be a 3+GHZ Quad core with 12MB cache, and 8GB of system Ram

But in order for 4GB (or more) of ram to be used at its full potential, you need a 64 bit OS, like Vista 64 bit, or XP 64 bit edition, regular 32 bit XP or Vista will only use around 3-3.5gb of a 4GB ram kit...loosing out on 512mb-1gb of ram is not a huge deal though, the extra 1-1.5gb you would gain over a 2GB kit is fairly noticable though in photoshop.

For more info on CPU's, ram, video cards, Hd's. Power supplies, etc..Anadtech is one of my favorite review sites...just click on the categories to see the most recnt and archived reviews.

AnandTech: your source for hardware analysis and news

For info on why the "Core 2 Duo" is a much faster CPU even at a slower "GHZ" speed than your P-4, this is a good older article.

AnandTech: Intel's Core 2 Extreme & Core 2 Duo: The Empire Strikes Back

Next generation "Penryn" family of CPU's Preview
AnandTech: Intel Penryn Performance Preview: The Fastest gets Faster

Oh, and while 430 watts is enough for a modern low end PC, it would probably be wise to upgrade it anyways, the newer PC components use different power connectors for video cards, motherboards and Sata HD's that might not be on your PSU...you might end up using lots of adaptors to get it to work, and typical midrange PC's like at least 500-600 watts these days.

Make sure it is a "Single Rail" power supply (Refer to the "Myths" link in my previous post) Dual rail power supplies often don't work very well in certain situations..especially with high powered or dual video cards...look for one that has at least 40+ Amps on the 12v rail if you plan on getting a high end video card!

Here are all the single rail PSU's from Silverstone...I used the 850 watt version in a recent build of an Overclocked (4+GHZ) Intel Quad core, with Dual 8800Ultras in SLI.

Newegg.com - Buy Computer Parts, PC Components, Laptop Computers, Digital Cameras and more!

The 750 watt version (60 Amps on the 12v rail) is a screaming deal (Best bang for the buck)at 149$ after rebate, only 20$ more then the 560 watt!!!

My other favorite brand is PC Power and Cooling

Newegg.com - Buy Computer Parts, PC Components, Laptop Computers, Digital Cameras and more!=

PS..Anandtech has there new "Midrange Buyers Guide" up, it's a good read!
AnandTech: October 2007 Midrange Buyer's Guide

EDIT: Note: if you are going "One Peice at a time" with a new computer, start with the "Basics" that aren't likely to change alot over time and be "Outdated" first...Power supply, case, hard drives, optical drives, etc. since they will generally be backwards compatible with your current hardware.

Get your Motherboard, CPU, Ram and Video card last to get your best "Value" along with the latest tech, that hardware typically refreshes every 3-6 months!

(OK I don't speak German)
BTW Necro will help you much!

Thanks for your detailed explanation $SOLID$, I appreciate it...Zoya

Welcome,
I'll just say how nice it is building a second computer with a complete one on hand, if your doing it peice by peice. Reason being its nice to have a machine to hook everything up to when you get it so you can make sure it isn't a lemon, or doa. I have quite a few parts sitting around that have yet, and won't be tested tell next week when it all gose together.

I started my first complete new build in June and started ordering parts for it in Agust and just ordered my last part yesterday. I did it one part at a time tell this week when I busted out my credit card and finished off my parts list, Had to finish it for Crysis.

I just signed up here this year and everybody has been more then welcoming and espeshaly knoledgable and helpfull.

EDIT: I went with a Quad Core a Q6600 Go stepping it's the way to go, for about $280 it's a for sure Win.

I'll also second Necro's love for PC power and Cooling. I just bought the 750 Silencer Quad and cant wait for it to get here. I'm not sure why newegg has the open box one at $30 more then the retail bit what ever.

Thanks for the encouragement Spatha. I like the idea of building a second PC while having my first to stay connected.I figure on getting the case and power supply first and then saving money for the rest while I mod my case. Nice Barret light 50 by the way...Zoya

Quote: Originally Posted by Zoya Thanks for the encouragement Spatha. I like the idea of building a second PC while having my first to stay connected.I figure on getting the case and power supply first and then saving money for the rest while I mod my case. Nice Barret light 50 by the way...Zoya

Ya the staying connected part is also another good thing about haveing a functioning computer, can always lookup readouts and configureations for the new one.
Ya I love my "Light 50" gotta figure out a better way to incorperate it into my signature, still saving up for the real deal unfortunutly. Thanks

Quote: Originally Posted by Zoya Looking forward to learning from the pros here.I'm currently taking a pc repair class at college and built my first Lian-Li PC. Looking to hot rod one as soon as my brain fills up with knowledge and my purse with money...Zoya

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