Captain Planet sent me this spectacular screenshot of Coolalars E8500 "Wolfdale" Dual Core Engineering Sample...4.7GHZ, is much better then I expected from the Dual Cores





It is using 1.6v, wich seemed a bit high for air cooling with a die shrink to 45NM, usually when you shrink the process, it can't take as much voltage due to voltage leaking (The smaller the die size, the less layers of atoms between transistors)

Think of it like trying to cool the tip of a match!

I said that can't be air cooled, and if it was, just a suicide screenie...but Planet reasured me it wasn't LN-2, Dry Ice or Phase Change...not even Water!

He also said it was "Benchable" but to what extent I don't know..even if it just ran 1MB of Super Pi..that's still mighty wicked!

Obviously, the new "High K Dielectric" Process Intel is doing MUCH better than what they were using for 65NM, and much much better than I had anticipated

You can read more about it below:

AnandTech: Intel Demonstrates new 45nm Transistors and Conroe's Successor


You can get the complete lowdown on Penryn including a review of the new "Quad" QX 9650 including an Overclock to 4GHZ with 1.4v on the STOCK cooler

AnandTech: Intel Core 2 Extreme QX9650 - Penryn Ticks Ahead

It's safe to say that Quad Cores are harder to OC than a Dual core, I would expect 4GHZ to be within reach for the lower end Quad's on good air when they are released in January, and 4.2-4.3+ for the Dual core versions...I would not expect everyone to be hitting over 4.5GHZ like Coolalar did, he was using a handpicked CPU, and they typically do a bit better (200-300MHZ)than the retail version you and I end up with.

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Holy Sheep Sh!t. That's quick. Breaking 4GHz on air at low voltage would be an enthusiasts wet dream. Get ready to reset all of the standard benchmarks.

Bye bye AMD

Quote: Originally Posted by Dex Bye bye AMD

Word, if that really is the case, AMD is going to have its work cut out for it.

As sweet as it is, this is almost bad news. Intel has already put the smackdown on AMD for over a year now and AMD has had nothing to answer with. On top of that, AMD accumulated a huge amount of debt when it acquired ATI. If AMD cannot come out with some sort of CPU that will cause power users to choose them instead of Intel, I don't know how AMD can survive.

I know that AMD has their Tri-Core processors leveled at mid-range users, and their new Quad-Core CPU's are supposed to be much more efficient than Intel's, that will not stand up to the brute force of Intel. They will be able to position their products at a much more acceptable price than AMD can, as a matter of fact they may take a loss on each processor sold just to saturate the market much like MS and Sony did with their game consoles.

I am starting to hear the death knells from AMD, they haven't been able to develop the technology to compete in the processor market, and they are further burdened with a graphics card division that has been bitch slapped hard by nVidia. It's a shame... I was one of the enthusiasts who embraced the Athlon as an alternative CPU to the Intel juggernaut, and back then our Athlon's smoked what Intel had to offer. It was fun.

Intel used that experience to realize what their market really was, and have now allowed us to overclock almost all of their consumer CPU's. They realized that clock speed isn't as important as performance, and they realized that aggressive pricing will allow them to profit in the long run. If the Intel juggernaut continues, I am afraid that they will have such a lock on the market that they will again be able to crank prices up, lower quantities available, and dictate to resellers on what prices they will charge. We've been there before, it could happen again.

That's why although I am completely happy that we will have a new superchip soon, I am worried that it may kill the competition. But... I'm just rambling here.

HKPEC has revealed the prices of the upcoming 45nm processors that will consume less power and run cooler than the current 65nm processors. These mainstream processors are scheduled to launch early 2008.

CPU PROCESSORS FULL LISTING - http://www.techarp.com/showarticl...453&pgno=0

"In the November announcement, Intel will announce the discontinuation of the Intel Core 2 Extreme X6800 and the Intel Core 2 Duo E6700, E6600, E6300, E6420 and E6320 processors in January 2008." .... "There are other processors (not listed in the table above) slated for discontinuation based on their steppings. We do not have information on the specific steppings or when they are slated for discontinuation, but these processors include : * the Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 and E4300 processors * the Intel Pentium 4 651 processor and, * the Intel Celeron D 352 processor."
http://www.techarp.com/showarticl...453&pgno=0

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Quote: Originally Posted by BigAkita That's why although I am completely happy that we will have a new superchip soon, I am worried that it may kill the competition. But... I'm just rambling here.

No..your not rambling.

I have always rooted for the underdog..and cut my OC teeth on AMD, while Boo'ing Intel.

But I also couldn't ignore the fact that buying AM-2 over Core 2 was going to put me at the bottom of the performance charts for the same money.

I never thought the gap would get THIS big, and keep growing. but AMD rested on it's K-8 laurels for too long, sucking up profits over winning hearts and minds. They should have pushed for 65NM much earlier, cut prices and had things like the "Black Edition" CPU long ago..and Phenom is about a year late to the party.

AM-2 was a disaster move for them, offering nothing to the consumer but a 1-2% improvement, having to buy a new motherboards, cooling and expensive DDR-2.

Much like the 3DFX fisaco in 2000, after the wildly succesfull Vodooo 2, they got big heads bought up STB and decided they could make more money if they made them all by themselves, and cut off outside vendors from making there cards. Then the fllow up products got to market late, and underperformed

Cutting off 939 support when AM-2 came out was the final nail in the coffin...they could have continued to sell CPU's for a LONG time if they would have kept upping the performance ante along side AM-2...
They sold TONS of 939 boards that would have made viable upgradable rigs for a long time, most of them were in the single core days...they had a built in captive audience!
Now you can't hardly find a dual core for them, and most people abondoned the platform when Core 2 came out.

The Dual FX-74 rig was AMD's Voodoo 5 6000, way to ambitous and pricey for even the high end market, it will never gain traction (It might have if it was launched a year earlier, and skipped AM-2) I won't bother to get into all the other reasons it was a bad idea.

I feel as if I am almost writing an obituary before the patient is dead...it is definately on life support right now.

Buying a new Phenom would be a move of "Charity" at this point for an enthusiast given the King Kong OC's of the Penryn.

As I said in the Phenom thread...AMD will have a very tough road again in 08, there is a chance they could pull it out in late 09-10 and at least be on even groud again with Intel, but only if they don't bleed to death first.

There one bright spot beween now and then is ATI seems to have some very good products in the midrange and low end coming this month..the bread and butter for profits.

I wish AMD would hire a bunch of us hardcore enthusiasts to shake it up, let a few of us nuts run loose in the labs with some engineering support, and I bet we could stop them from sinking...those engineers they have now aren't trying hard enough, nor do they understand what "We" want....

Intel flooded XS with Core 2 "Goodies" and won them over, they finally realised it was people like that who have tons of influence on what goes in your friends and family's PC's.

AMD needs a kick in the ass ASAP!

Man, this sucks.

AMD is going to need more than fanboys and cheerleaders to pull out of this.

I'm uber glad Intel made an awesome way better overclocking champion, but it is sad news as BA, and Necro said.

I only hope 09' calls for one hell of a new tech, and sub 45nm process (if they get there). I think thats part of what AMD really is going to need.

Well, $SOLID$ Necro took the words right out of my mouth. That is the state of things and unless AMD has some really well kept secret in their lab, it does not look good for them. I seriously hope they stick around, I mean someone has to keep Intel honest, but it will be a tough road for them.

AMD have been lazy, thats why there in such a mess. These results are nice though for sure. Here's something similar.
New 45nm CPU First Look-Intel C2D E8500 4.7G On Air Cooler - XtremeSystems Forums

Quote: Originally Posted by DickNervous Well, $SOLID$ Necro took the words right out of my mouth. That is the state of things and unless AMD has some really well kept secret in their lab, it does not look good for them. I seriously hope they stick around, I mean someone has to keep Intel honest, but it will be a tough road for them.

When AMD decides to split ATi off again, you'll know what's what.

You heard it here first. Give it a year ...

-godling

To me its alittle scary honestly, if AMD fails to produce, then its the age old situtation where there is no need for innovation because there will be nothing else. If you look, its already happening with Nvidia because AMD/ATI feels they don't need to compete with the 8800GTX, so instead of releasing something better, Nvidia releases something to compete with the mid range.
what will happen if we the entire computer industry gets the microsoft complex?

Quote: Originally Posted by Sk8forMaple To me its alittle scary honestly, if AMD fails to produce, then its the age old situtation where there is no need for innovation because there will be nothing else. If you look, its already happening with Nvidia because AMD/ATI feels they don't need to compete with the 8800GTX, so instead of releasing something better, Nvidia releases something to compete with the mid range. what will happen if we the entire computer industry gets the microsoft complex?

For graphics cards, I'm less concerned (at the moment). If the mid-range is where the competition is, then that's still fine -- that means the competition is at a more affordable price point (for me). I'd rather have $200 cards that are continually improving than $500 cards. I'm not sure the business model breaks down that way, though ...

I will forever support AMD/ATi. they captured my heart years ago. I will do what ever i can to suppport them for as long as i can.

I just sold my 8800's bought a HD2900XT 1gb, and i am waiting on the quads to be released. hopefully, it will be what i am hoping they can build. I have faith. It is all i have left for them

Charlie

That is a amazing processor ive been trying to follow them for the past few months waiting for there release i was wondering if anyone here has gotten the E8400 penryn? thats what im looking at right now and i know newegg is sold out but i did a quick search on pricewatch and found 4 other vendors though there a tad more expensive. And i think amd/ati has something up there sleve because they had been developing for way to long on the quadcore platform for it to bomb this way i think the phenom maybe a taste of whats to come on considering how much better they perform stock wise against the amd dualcores there worth it if your already on a amd rig that supports it and want to just buy a phenom and slap it in. I also think there spider platfrom is a pretty good idea because atleast the people buying into that platform are buying almost all amd and ati products instead of getting like say the amd processor and a sli setup so maybe something good will come out of all of it by end of 08 begining of 09.

I get my E8500 in a week or two

whats the diff between the e8500 and the e8400 besides the clock multiplier?fsb cache and instruction sets are the same there both 45nm? and let me know how your e8500 works out i think that its finally time to actually build a full pc this time and blow everything out bleeding edge style lol.

Quote: Originally Posted by xgeko2 whats the diff between the e8500 and the e8400 besides the clock multiplier?fsb cache and instruction sets are the same there both 45nm? and let me know how your e8500 works out i think that its finally time to actually build a full pc this time and blow everything out bleeding edge style lol.

The only difference is the increased clock multiplier. Every CPU in the same series are different speeds because the clock multipliers are different.

If you want to know how well an E8400 runs, Sk8forMaple has one. I think they are doing around 4.2ghz on air.

if you take a look around hwbot, people are doing atleast 4.5 to 4.7 on air.. unfortunately they're running at scary voltages, but they're doing it.

I haven't seen any drastic changes in heat with my overclocks, at stock it was running at 31 c idle about 45 c under load to 36ish idle to 50ish under a load at 3.7 ghz, keep in mind I'm still running the stock cooler.

After I get my TUNIQ cooler in, I'll be able to give you a bit more information on how they run on a good cooler