Flat heatpipes

sandalfon · 28-October-05, 09:57 AM

The link is in german, but has anyone had any experiences or heard anything about this seemingly nice product:

http://www.frozen-silicon.de/catalog...9f7bde0bb61900

lAnonymousl · 28-October-05, 10:37 AM

Google vapor chambers.

A cousin of the heatpipe common in heatsinks today...maybe we'll start seeing these become more popular as time progresses. The problem is it needs to be integrated into and designed for a heatsink geometry just like the heatpipes in today's HSFs otherwise you're simply adding thermal resistance needlessly (.32 C/W is not insignificant, in addition to another layer of TIM). What's the point of relocating a heatsink? If you want to dissipate heat away from the CPU stick with water.

The Dragon Reborn · 28-October-05, 02:16 PM

Yes I have, read on here (more German :-));
http://teschke.de/cms/index.php?site...d=51&artid=183

Those folks made working systems using this stuff... Hope it helps!

TDR

Jobistober · 28-October-05, 02:44 PM

It doesn't matter what the cross-sectional shape of a "heat-pipe" actually is. Heat energy will transfer through any high-energy conducting metal(like copper or aluminum), regardless if its a "pipe" or a "flat ribbon-like" shape. A heat pipe could be square or triangular in shape and it wouldn't make any difference. The only thing that affects the speed at which heat is transfered is the cross-sectioanl "area" and the speed at which the metal can conduct heat.
That's what a year of college physics gets you: Thermodynamics Baby!!

lAnonymousl · 28-October-05, 02:49 PM

What one year of college physics doesn't get you, on the other hand, is knowing the fact that heatpipes / vapor chambers don't work by conduction alone and aren't solid metal....that wouldn't make any sense if you think about it.

Jobistober · 28-October-05, 02:56 PM

Well, if they don't work on conduction alone, then what else makes them work?

btw- I was aware that heat pipes aren't solid.

RBIEZE · 28-October-05, 03:03 PM

A heatpipe conducts heat through the evaporation condensation phase just like an air conditioner but at alower temp differential.Its a hollow tube filled with a evaporative medium such as methonal.the fluid is heated at the cpu and boils rising to the top releasing the heat and recondensing into liquid and falling back down the pipe to start it all over again

Jobistober · 28-October-05, 03:34 PM

Thanks for clearifying that RBIEZE!

I stand corrected Anonymous

lAnonymousl · 28-October-05, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jobistober


	Well, if they don't work on conduction alone, then what else makes them work?

Heat source ---> (Conduction) Copper outside of heatpipe ---> (Conduction) Wick material ---> (Convection) Working fluid ---> (Conduction) Wick ---> (Conduction) Copper outiside of heat pipe

The critical step is the convection to the fluid. Because of this two-phase mechanism you cannot apply a constant, geometrically-independent thermal conductivity value as you can with single-phase materials. The thermal conductivity of a heat pipe is variable and depends not only on the temperature gradient, but also the fluid used, heat pipe geometry, wick material properties, length, etc... Newton's law of cooling is invalid.

Edit........I'm sloooow.

Jobistober · 28-October-05, 05:54 PM

I'm really sorry Anonymous

I wasn't aware of the "wick" material that does the other half of the work in heat pipes. I'm an idiot! lol

Splitter · 28-October-05, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jobistober


	I'm really sorry Anonymous I wasn't aware of the "wick" material that does the other half of the work in heat pipes. I'm an idiot! lol

You aren't an idiot.
I read the thread and was amazed at how smart you and the other folks are. I would have just figured that in order for a flat heat pipe to work, it would still have to have some sort of medium inside it.. and what about the size of the pipe... if it is too small... wouldn't it be ineffective.. couldn't dissipate enough heat?

<--not a physics major... just interested...

Jobistober · 28-October-05, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splitter


	You aren't an idiot. I read the thread and was amazed at how smart you and the other folks are. I would have just figured that in order for a flat heat pipe to work, it would still have to have some sort of medium inside it.. and what about the size of the pipe... if it is too small... wouldn't it be ineffective.. couldn't dissipate enough heat? <--not a physics major... just interested...

Thanks for that reasurrance, I've been having an especially crappy day and just kinda depressed.

Anyway. The size of the heat pipe would definitely effect performance. From what I NOW understand about heat pipes, the actual "piping" of heat would only increase with a larger heat pipe. And who knows, that flat heat pipe just might have some kind of medium in it.

The reason I didn't realize heat pipes actually contained a medium within the pipe itself(other than air) is because I thought that would be too expensive to produce in bulk... but I guess I was wrong.

28-October-05, 09:57 AM		#1 (permalink)
sandalfon Apex Master Tech Apprentice	Flat heatpipes The link is in german, but has anyone had any experiences or heard anything about this seemingly nice product: http://www.frozen-silicon.de/catalog...9f7bde0bb61900

28-October-05, 10:37 AM		#2 (permalink)
lAnonymousl The Who? Hoe	Google vapor chambers. A cousin of the heatpipe common in heatsinks today...maybe we'll start seeing these become more popular as time progresses. The problem is it needs to be integrated into and designed for a heatsink geometry just like the heatpipes in today's HSFs otherwise you're simply adding thermal resistance needlessly (.32 C/W is not insignificant, in addition to another layer of TIM). What's the point of relocating a heatsink? If you want to dissipate heat away from the CPU stick with water. Last edited by lAnonymousl; 28-October-05 at 10:42 AM..

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28-October-05, 02:16 PM		#3 (permalink)
The Dragon Reborn Apex Elite Expert Tech	Yes I have, read on here (more German :-)); http://teschke.de/cms/index.php?site...d=51&artid=183 Those folks made working systems using this stuff... Hope it helps! TDR

28-October-05, 02:44 PM		#4 (permalink)
Jobistober P'Hoe'toshop Fanatic	It doesn't matter what the cross-sectional shape of a "heat-pipe" actually is. Heat energy will transfer through any high-energy conducting metal(like copper or aluminum), regardless if its a "pipe" or a "flat ribbon-like" shape. A heat pipe could be square or triangular in shape and it wouldn't make any difference. The only thing that affects the speed at which heat is transfered is the cross-sectioanl "area" and the speed at which the metal can conduct heat. That's what a year of college physics gets you: Thermodynamics Baby!!

28-October-05, 02:49 PM		#5 (permalink)
lAnonymousl The Who? Hoe	What one year of college physics doesn't get you, on the other hand, is knowing the fact that heatpipes / vapor chambers don't work by conduction alone and aren't solid metal....that wouldn't make any sense if you think about it.

28-October-05, 02:56 PM		#6 (permalink)
Jobistober P'Hoe'toshop Fanatic	Well, if they don't work on conduction alone, then what else makes them work? btw- I was aware that heat pipes aren't solid.

28-October-05, 03:03 PM		#7 (permalink)
RBIEZE Apex Tech Demi-God	A heatpipe conducts heat through the evaporation condensation phase just like an air conditioner but at alower temp differential.Its a hollow tube filled with a evaporative medium such as methonal.the fluid is heated at the cpu and boils rising to the top releasing the heat and recondensing into liquid and falling back down the pipe to start it all over again

28-October-05, 03:34 PM		#8 (permalink)
Jobistober P'Hoe'toshop Fanatic	Thanks for clearifying that RBIEZE! I stand corrected Anonymous

28-October-05, 05:54 PM		#10 (permalink)
Jobistober P'Hoe'toshop Fanatic	I'm really sorry Anonymous I wasn't aware of the "wick" material that does the other half of the work in heat pipes. I'm an idiot! lol