I have two OCZ Gladiator 3s on my dual MP2600+ and over the winter, one of them was getting a lot noiser than the other. (one has a black fan, one has a fan with 3 LEDs that keep me half awake a night because it's so bright.)

Is it possible for the bearings to freeze, causing excessive vibration (noise and harshness) because it got too cold even though the system was running at full load the whole time? Reason why I'm asking now is because one of the fans is apparently failing somehow, but there's about a 10 C differential between one CPU and the other, causing the system to BSOD.

Just wanted to know if that is possible and if that is a common mode of failure on HSFs. I'm about to shut down that system so I can swap it with two Tt Silent Boost K7s.

Freeze? Probably not unless they were running at temperatures below ambient. The bearings usually just fail. You can tell if it's nearing failure, as the fan gets noticably louder.

it would never get cold enuff in a computer to freeze bearing so no, but on the otehr hand fans fail all the time.. so mabie tis just dieing on u.

dude my girlfriends cpu fan went bad the other day, and made all type of "wobbling" noises. everything wears out in time----its very possible your fan just up and went south. fans are cheap-------just get another one....

Just to clarify - I didn't mean by it to stop completely, although if I could take a video of the fan that I have that I just pulled out; you'd see what I mean. (heck, even my roommate's gf was like "wow......" when I showed it to her. She was like..."poor fan...")

It is my understanding that there is supposed to be some fluid medium in the bearing assembly as a lubricant and it is also my understand that there are only three companies (Thermaltake, Vantec, and Zalman) that uses a Silicone-based lubricant while all others uses something that either hydrous in composition or that it contains some amount of water.

Outside air temperature was about -5 I think, and the house was probably set to 68-ish and I usually keep my room at about 58 during the winter. Unfortunately, I didn't take actual temperature readings, but it would only get loud after a certain ambient temperature. (typically corresponded to between 53 and 56 ambient). Ever heard one of those trash compactor (you know the ones that you have in the kitchen sink? Well...the fan, for a while, sounded a lot like that.

Course I didn't make anything of it then because it was intermittent.

Attached is a picture of what the HSF looks like on the bottom. The left is the one that failed. The right is the one that survived.

(I also did get a chance to get some more information about the processors too.)

*edit*
just an update:
I am (re-) burning in the dual MP2600+ right now. Currently running at 54 C and 57 C respectively, with an ambient of 24 C. I'm also using Arctic Silver 5 as well.

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Quote: Originally Posted by alpha754293 Ever heard one of those trash compactor (you know the ones that you have in the kitchen sink? Well...the fan, for a while, sounded a lot like that.

It sounds suspiciously like one of the bearings wore faster than the others, and the fan became imbalanced if it was making that kind of noise. (Think a top that is just starting to slow down enough to lose its balance, or your average grocery store cart). Not that it may have helped, but for future reference, many types of fans have an actual needle sized oil hole under the upper label so you can put in a drop of your favorite wet or dry lubricant.

Quote: Originally Posted by Graaille It sounds suspiciously like one of the bearings wore faster than the others, and the fan became imbalanced if it was making that kind of noise. Not that it may have helped, but for future reference, many types of fans have an actual oil hole under the upper label so you can put in a drop of your favorite wet or dry lubricant.

Mobil1 SAE 5W30? (and no...I'm not kidding about that either. I have some in the trunk of my car right now cuz that what I use on my engine. Works great. Dunno how well it would do in a bearing for a HSF though.)

This is what the top of the fan looks like. Where the hole that you were talking about?

update:
it's now running at 54 C and 58 C respectively.

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Quote: Originally Posted by Dr3w it would never get cold enuff in a computer to freeze bearing so no, but on the otehr hand fans fail all the time.. so mabie tis just dieing on u.

you'll have to talk to Zenzz about that one....

I Meant his computer, not a computer with enuff crap in it to kool a nuclear reactor

Quote: Originally Posted by Dr3w I Meant his computer, not a computer with enuff crap in it to kool a nuclear reactor

huh??? *lost* (i.e. what is the relevance?) *scratching my head* (not a nuclear physicist....yet...)

Quote: Originally Posted by alpha754293 Mobil1 SAE 5W30? (and no...I'm not kidding about that either. I have some in the trunk of my car right now cuz that what I use on my engine. Works great. Dunno how well it would do in a bearing for a HSF though.) This is what the top of the fan looks like. Where the hole that you were talking about?

Sorry about not getting back to you sooner, I don't generally get a chance to read on weekends.
Generally I use 3 in 1 oil, but Mobil1 will work also, alternately wd-40 or any silicon spray would do ok also, but application could be a bit messy.
On the 32 fans that I've had an opportunity to open up, I think 16-18 of them had the hole. (Your fan obviously doesn't fall into the "convienant" category.) The others to oil them you remove the lower sticker and directly oil the spindle. If you use a syringe, you can oil the inner shaft directly, the outer area w/bearings can be oiled (in those cases) only by capillary action. Alternately, depending on bravery, you _can_ take an extremely small drillbit and make the hole yourself, but I can't really recommend that. Reason being is that any plastic trash created by the drill has an extremely good chance of falling into the bearing path, effectively nullifying any benefit of the modification. (I've only done 5 of 14 that worked.)

If you do try it, use either a 1-2mm drill bit, a dremel at the lowest possible speed, and if you've picked up the "drill press" attachment, use it. (that's invaluable since you have to drill slowly and with a minimum of pressure, and you have to keep the angle of drilling consistant.)

I haven't worked with computer in the whole modding arena...at all, so I am going to admit to the fact that I should know the answer to the following question (given my major of study), but having never playing around with CPU HSFs before:

How would I be able to get into the fan that I have? I know that you've mentioned using a drill bit (I'm not very good with tools. Stuff tends to break in ways that people never thought possible.) Tools and me just don't get along, unless they're just passing through.

In any case, long story. Is there another way for me to take apart the fan to do the lubrication? I was thinking of probably just using a syringe but I've never really tinkered with them. (I know I know, I should know this - need to take one apart in full assembly view).

(and yes, I also realize that its kinda late for me to save the one that already died; because I think that the bearings are nothing but a fine dust.)

sidenote however:
running full load at 24 C ambient, 49 C and 54 C respectively.

Quote: Originally Posted by alpha754293 How would I be able to get into the fan that I have? I know that you've mentioned using a drill bit (I'm not very good with tools.

'S ok, sometimes you don't have to be. This can be one of those times.

Quote: Originally Posted by alpha754293 In any case, long story. Is there another way for me to take apart the fan to do the lubrication? I was thinking of probably just using a syringe but I've never really tinkered with them. (I know I know, I should know this - need to take one apart in full assembly view).

Flip the fan over and see where the wires go into the motor, should also be covered by a label. pulling the label off of the bottom you should see the inside of the spindle. That's where you apply the oil. You really can't take the fan apart, at least with a real possibility of putting it back together again.
But, if you gently put oil at the joint between the spindle and the plastic of the fan, the oil will seep into the joint to actually lubricate the bearings. One maybe two drops is all you will need, let the fan sit for about 10 minutes to allow the oil to seep, then run it for a minute or two. Stop it, take a clean cloth and clean the bottom of the fan if there was any spatterage. Repeat process one more time.

Now, as oil and adhesive don't mix, and you do need to protect that spindle from dust. Spray some degreaser/cleaning solvent on a clean rag/paper towel and clean around the bottom of the fan really well, then reapply the label with glue. If the label is toast due to the energy expended due to getting it up, you can substitute an altered to size address label. (w/perhaps a slight drop or two of extra adhesive)

Quote: Originally Posted by Graaille 'S ok, sometimes you don't have to be. This can be one of those times. Flip the fan over and see where the wires go into the motor, should also be covered by a label. pulling the label off of the bottom you should see the inside of the spindle. That's where you apply the oil. You really can't take the fan apart, at least with a real possibility of putting it back together again. But, if you gently put oil at the joint between the spindle and the plastic of the fan, the oil will seep into the joint to actually lubricate the bearings. One maybe two drops is all you will need, let the fan sit for about 10 minutes to allow the oil to seep, then run it for a minute or two. Stop it, take a clean cloth and clean the bottom of the fan if there was any spatterage. Repeat process one more time. Now, as oil and adhesive don't mix, and you do need to protect that spindle from dust. Spray some degreaser/cleaning solvent on a clean rag/paper towel and clean around the bottom of the fan really well, then reapply the label with glue. If the label is toast due to the energy expended due to getting it up, you can substitute an altered to size address label. (w/perhaps a slight drop or two of extra adhesive)

hmm....I will note that for future reference. I think that something's definitely up with the bearings in the dead fan because if you try to spin it by "flicking" it (i.e. using your index finger, you push on the fan blade fast, and it should be able to spin freely for a couple of revs before it stops. with this one, it does about a 1/4 turn before it stops.)

[back]

I took the fan off the heatsink, cleaned it, and removed the bottom label. It's smooth surface just like the top. The only open it has is a tiny one where the leads of the wires are attached to what appears to be a very tiny PCB.

Quote: Originally Posted by alpha754293 I took the fan off the heatsink, cleaned it, and removed the bottom label. It's smooth surface just like the top. The only open it has is a tiny one where the leads of the wires are attached to what appears to be a very tiny PCB.

Strange, I've never taken one apart that was solid top and bottom, looked back at your first post to see what type of fan it was. I've never bought an OCZ fan, nor has anyone given one to me for me to play with. If it were me, since the one is toast anyway, I would be taking it apart to see where everything is placed to know where everything is placed so if you do need to do surgery on a future one (see above), you have a good chance of drilling in the right place. But then that's me, if you choose a different type of fan from a local retailer, ask them if the fan has an oiling point. Most places, if they sell the fan, they will have at least one in the back for testing purposes that they can check.

Quote: Originally Posted by Graaille Strange, I've never taken one apart that was solid top and bottom, looked back at your first post to see what type of fan it was. I've never bought an OCZ fan, nor has anyone given one to me for me to play with. If it were me, since the one is toast anyway, I would be taking it apart to see where everything is placed to know where everything is placed so if you do need to do surgery on a future one (see above), you have a good chance of drilling in the right place. But then that's me, if you choose a different type of fan from a local retailer, ask them if the fan has an oiling point. Most places, if they sell the fan, they will have at least one in the back for testing purposes that they can check.

that's why I mentioned taking it apart because I didn't think that there was one. The heatsink itself looks like it got some annealing to it (or some other form heat treating - I don't know for sure). There is several discoloration as you can maybe see from the picture that compares the normal one vs. the dead one.

In theory, I should still be able to use it, all I would need to do is just get another fan.

Yep, the heatsink is reusuable, unless you think it got above 200-300 degrees C. You may need to follow the guides for lapping the heatsink -- not because it warped or anything like that, I've just found its the quickest/easiest way to clean and prepare the bottom of a heatsink. Other than that, its back to the salt mine for that sink.

Quote: Originally Posted by Graaille Yep, the heatsink is reusuable, unless you think it got above 200-300 degrees C. You may need to follow the guides for lapping the heatsink -- not because it warped or anything like that, I've just found its the quickest/easiest way to clean and prepare the bottom of a heatsink. Other than that, its back to the salt mine for that sink.

it is an all copper heatsink, so I think that the discoloration starts at a much lower temperature (probably between 150-175 C). And I am also thinking that it is possible that in some local areas that it might have gotten to that temperature because of the dead fan. I don't have an Xray, otherwise I would try to see about figuring the depth of the discoloration (which is an uncontrolled heat treat if you will).

I don't know how much the metallic structure's change (in composition, not physical deformation) as a result of that. I don't know if lapping would really help it. It would give a clean surface yes, but if there's enough discrepancy/difference in the material properties, in particular, thermal conductivity, then I don't know if it's worth keeping. (unless I have an older Duron or even one of the newer Durons would work.)

Quote: Originally Posted by Spectrum Freeze? Probably not unless they were running at temperatures below ambient. The bearings usually just fail. You can tell if it's nearing failure, as the fan gets noticably louder.

Not freezing, persay; however, too low an ambient computer for a computer using air-cooling based solutions may cause a change in viscosity of the lubricants present within the ball bearing assembly (on the races and the balls themselves) to potentially not flow correctly thus allowing for abnormally accelerated wear. If running at some ridiculously low ambient temperature with air cooling, convective and/or heat pipe thermal transfer-based systems would be advisable.

Quote: Originally Posted by Dr3w it would never get cold enuff in a computer to freeze bearing so no, but on the otehr hand fans fail all the time.. so mabie tis just dieing on u.

I wouldn't ever say never...only improbable or unlikely.

Quote: Originally Posted by alpha754293 Mobil1 SAE 5W30? (and no...I'm not kidding about that either. I have some in the trunk of my car right now cuz that what I use on my engine. Works great. Dunno how well it would do in a bearing for a HSF though.) This is what the top of the fan looks like. Where the hole that you were talking about? update: it's now running at 54 C and 58 C respectively.

Mobile 1 5W40 works best on a lot of the older Zalman fans.

You can use Mobile 1 5W20 on Vantec fans if you fully disassemble the hub and use an indusstrial solvent to remove the existing silicone-based lubricant (although I see no logical reason why anybody would want to do so).

Quote: Originally Posted by alpha754293 that's why I mentioned taking it apart because I didn't think that there was one. The heatsink itself looks like it got some annealing to it (or some other form heat treating - I don't know for sure). There is several discoloration as you can maybe see from the picture that compares the normal one vs. the dead one. In theory, I should still be able to use it, all I would need to do is just get another fan.

Odds are that the metal was not severely altered at the crystalline level as it is unlikely that it was cooled rapidly enough to cause annealing (unlike having to burn of the protective film from a thermaltake cpu shim and running it under cold tap water without really thinking about the consequences). Additionally, it's extremely unlikely that it was heated enough to cause any form of tempering.