Hey folks,

Decided to do something fiscally irresponsible here and build a new computer that will last me a bit. My current build is considered so-so (Opty 146) and there's a new spate of games coming out that require minimum dual core.

Here's what I got so far...

ASUS M2R32-MVP AM2 AMD 580X CrossFire ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail - $109.99

AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+ Windsor 3.0GHz 2 x 1MB L2 Cache Socket AM2 125W Dual-Core Processor - Retail - $92.99

ZALMAN 9500A 92mm 2 Ball CPU Cooler - Retail - $53.99

G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail - $65.99

Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST380215A 80GB 7200 RPM 2MB Cache IDE Ultra ATA100 Hard Drive - OEM - $39.99

Seagate ST3640323AS 640GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM - $84.99

VANTEC MRK-200ST-BK EZ Swap 3.5" SATA Removeable Hard drive rack Kit, with LCD display - Retail - $69.98 (getting two of these)

Now here's where I get stumped. What is PCI Express x16 2.0? What's the deal with that? I've selected a Cross-Fire board because I may go that route, but what you don't see on the list is a power supply and video card(s). The PSU is going to depend upon whether or not I go Cross-Fire.

Any suggestions on a video card? Currently total comes up to $517.92 and I'm trying to keep this under $800, if possible. I already have a case and a DVD drive for it.

NOTE: The reason for the two drives is I use the 80GB as my OS/Program master drive while everything else I do is kept on the slave drive. This way, I don't have to worry about deleting anything important when I perform a reformat. The hard drive rack kits are for when I'm out on the road, I pull the drives and lock them up in my safe.

Let me know your thoughts, whether to stick with this, go with Intel, scrap it all and start over, etc. I've been out of the loop for so long as to what's going on that the week after I buy this stuff, it'll have a major price drop.

Thanks,

Rob

Just wondering...is that mobo IPv6 compatible? I imagine so, but I'd better check with ASUS.

EDIT: And no, I'm not going to overclock it.

Go with an Intel Core 2 E8400, an Asus P5Q pro motherboard and a Radeon 4850. I just built a machine for a mate with that spec and it's very snappy. Will blow the AMD machine out of the water.

Not too sure about pricing, but that should come in under $800. A Corsair 520 or 620 PSU would suffice as well.

PCI 2.0 allows for more bandwidth on the PCI bus and, theoretically, pumps 150w along the PCI bus instead of 75w, meaning a PCI 2.0 board powering a PCI 2.0 card that uses less than 150w at full throttle, doesn't really need the extra power adapters. Theoretically. I haven't tried it, myself.

As for the parts, my stock reply at this point is typically, "Why not Intel?" AMD has better speed for accessing memory (onboard memory controller) but modern FSB speeds make that performance difference much smaller than it used to be, and in pure number crunching, Intel still has the flag. Also, with Nehalem coming out in 4Q or so, chip prices should be dropping. Let me take a quick look ...

Intel e7200 -- 119.99
Newegg.com - Intel Core 2 Duo E7200 Wolfdale 2.53GHz 3MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor - Processors - Desktops

Gigabyte GA-EP35-DS3L -- 89.99
Newegg.com - GIGABYTE GA-EP35-DS3L LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard - Intel Motherboards

Your G.Skill RAM for 65.99

Keep the two Seagate drives for $39.99 and $84.99 -- but consider a 120GB primary drive instead of that 60 ...

And your two Vantecs for $69.98 each, that comes to ... $540.91 ...

Add on a nice Asus Radeon 4850 card (should more than handle modern games, and it's relatively cheap) for $169.99
Newegg.com - ASUS EAH4850/HTDI/512M Radeon HD 4850 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Desktop Graphics / Video Cards

And now you're at $710.

PCP&C PSU's have been less expensive since OCZ bought them, and this 500w puppy, at $79.99, is SLi / Crossfire ready if you ever end up going that route:
Newegg.com - PC Power & Cooling Silencer PPCS500 500W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply - Power Supplies

That puts you at $790 or so, not including shipping (some of which is free at Newegg).

This search took me 10 minutes. You can probably find better deals. Notice I didn't include the CPU fan -- I had originally priced an e8400 for another $60 (worth in, IMO, but I wanted to come under $800), and the stock coolers on those chips are actually pretty good. Alternately, you can go with an Arctic Freezer Pro 7, well-regarded for cooling and silence, and comes with the required fan, for only $25 -- no need to drop $70 on a HSF for low- to moderate overclocking, that Arctic does an excellent job.

Just a few minutes' thought for ya. Good luck on the build!

-godling

Well first off you're definitely much better off going with Intel. AMD is getting better but Intel still wins hands down. Lower power consumption and better performance all around.

Secondly as for crossfire, there are plenty of Intel boards that support it so that shouldn't be a problem.

You can also do better than that Zalman. I believe that at the moment the Thermalright XP-120 is the current king of performance but Noctua's latest gives it a pretty good run and is a lot quieter as well.

Hard Drive wise I know it seems like a good idea to put your OS & main programs on a seperate drive and it is---but not on a slow drive like that. Hard Drives are dirt cheap these days so go with a bigger one such as this. 500GB is probably overkill, but you know there's no such thing right?

Video Card wise a 4850 is probably plenty good for you and they're fairly cheap--you can pick one up for around $140.
PCI-Express 2.0 is a basically a revision of the PCI spec that allows for more bandwith to pass through as well supply more power through the slot (75w I believe). It's not neccessary and you probably won't notice the difference performance wise but seeing as just about any Crossfire capable Intel mobo you buy these days will be PCI Express 2.0 compliant.

Anyways you can get an E7200 and a Asus P5QPro for around $240. A 4850 is around $150, $50 for a CPU Cooler, 2x 500GB Hard Drives for $150ish, $60 for RAM, and $120 for the hard drive racks comes out to around $830. A little over budget but it should be quite the computer.

ADD: Anandtech's got a great article about power supplies and over wattage that you should definitely check out.

Hope that helps

I concur on the Intel posts above. Godling posted some pretty good stuff.

"And no, I'm not going to overclock it."

E

Quote: Originally Posted by Fred_G I concur on the Intel posts above. Godling posted some pretty good stuff. "And no, I'm not going to overclock it." E

Sad but true.

However, knowing Rob as Rob, I would imagine that he expects Phenom to get better in the near future, and possibly upgrade to that, because it runs AM2+.

However with that said, if you decide to stay with the AM2 pick, the current motherboard you've chosen needs to have its BIOS flashed before it will register Phenom chips (even though it says it supports them off the bat--- Wait they actually changed it).

Thanks guys.

I might be able to get by with the PSU that I've got now. I can't remember how big it is, but it's the ThermalTake that Slaymate sold to me last year. I'm sure that the PSU will be fine.

I only chose AMD because that's pretty much what I'm used to. Never have used an Intel before at home so I guess that I'll give it a shot.

Oh, and I didn't mean to select the IDE hard drive, but the SATA drive instead. Here's the link...

Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST380815AS 80GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM - $38.99

I'll do some more research this weekend and put up a new list early next week. I really need to keep up on this stuff or, like now, get left behind.

Rob

deffinitly look into a intel setup.

i have ran both, and it may seem wierd and i have nothing to back it up, but i feel i have less issues with a intel setup than i do with a AMD.

also, if you decide on going with a crossfire setup..

i have 2 4850 cards i would be willing to work out a deal on. 1 brand new in the box, the other is installed in my rig, but nothing hooked up to it.

O.K., followed some suggestions and here's what I've got now...

2		VANTEC MRK-200ST-BK EZ Swap 3.5" SATA Removeable Hard drive rack Kit, with LCD display Item #: N82E16817122105 Return Policy: Standard Return Policy	-$5.00 Instant	$79.98 $69.98
1		Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80570E8400 Item #: N82E16819115037 Return Policy: Processors (CPUs) Return Policy		$169.99
1		Thermaltake CL-P0310 120mm CPU Cooling Fan Item #: N82E16835106080 Return Policy: Standard Return Policy		$54.99
1		ASUS EAH4850/HTDI/512M Radeon HD 4850 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card Item #: N82E16814121253 Return Policy: Standard Return Policy	-$15.00 Instant $30.00 Mail-in Rebate	$184.99 $169.99
1		G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-6400CL5D-4GBPQ Item #: N82E16820231122 Return Policy: Memory (Modules, USB) Return Policy	-$40.00 Instant	$105.99 $65.99
1		Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST380815AS 80GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive Item #: N82E16822148231 Return Policy: Limited 30-Day Return Policy		$38.99
1		Seagate ST3640323AS 640GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive Item #: N82E16822148335 Return Policy: Limited 30-Day Return Policy		$84.99
1		ASUS P5Q Pro LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard Item #: N82E16813131299 Return Policy: Limited 30-Day Return Policy	$20.00 Mail-in Rebate	$139.99

All in all, it comes to just under $800.00. I'm going to use my RaidMax Katana case, which is probably the best damned case I've bought in years but for some reason, RaidMax is not selling it anymore. If I were to get another case, it would be the Antec 900, but that's moot.

I've opted for the E8400 instead of the E7200 simply because there isn't that much of a price difference.

The PSU that I'm using now is the ThermalTake Toughpower 700W. That should be enough, don't you think?

I'm almost worried a bit about that board. I've never had any luck with ASUS and I tend to read the negative reviews more than I do the positive reviews. Seems some folks have gotten a lot of the DOA boards. Gigabyte is another company that I've been scared away from, mainly from hearing about all the troubles that godfoot has had with his. I've always had good luck with Abit and DFI, but didn't find one that I liked real well. If someone could recommend a mobo from either of those, I would certainly take a look at it.

TCG_Modder, as far as working out a deal, I'm going to have to pass. This is all being done on plastic, flying in the face of our economic times. However, once I get this built, I may look into seeing if you would want to trade some parts out of my current rig for it.

I got notification yesterday that I may be going somewhere again real soon for a while, so this has to be put on hold until mid-October. I'd hate to order this stuff, have it show up, and sit on my doorstep for a couple of months during the winter.

Thanks,

Rob

Re: Abit or DFI boards....Abit are pulling out the market and DFI aren't what they once were. Although they have a fair selection of boards, they really tend to cater for the ultra-high end overclocker. Asus boards are pretty good these days - they've taken the mainstream market and have great high end boards as well.

If you're desperate for an Abit board the IP35 series, particularly the Pro/XE have a great reputation. Not sure if they're still being made though.

Quote: Originally Posted by Rob O.K., followed some suggestions and here's what I've got now...

I'm glad you stepped up to the e8400 ... that's what I'm using, and it's rock f'ing solid. A real processing beast for low-cost. Love it!!!

As for Gigabyte, the P35 board I've got now is the first Gig I've ever purchased, and it's been perfect from day one, and had some great reviews (not the power-saver model, mind you, but the slightly earlier version). That being said, it's only been running 24/7 for about 3 months, so perhaps extended periods of time will wear it down -- still, that's great performance for a board that only cost me $89.

I've used Asus board primarily, once upon a time, back when matching motherboard manufacturers to the video cards was one of the only ways to ensure you would get solid performance from both. So my Asus Geforce4 card and Asus mobo was a great combo, and I kept going Asus for a while at that point in time. Never had a problem with their manufacturing quality.

Finally, I have a friend who swears up and down that eVGA is the best company ever -- quality of build, customer experience, buy-back and upgrade options, etceteras. And when it comes to someone who has bad luck with parts (my friend does, I don't), this guy swearing about great manufacturing and customer service is something I consider.

Anyway ... just more fuel for the fire. And your impending trip is good news for your wallet. By the time you get back, prices will likely have dropped again as Nehalem approaches market.

-godling

Good choices on the second build Rob. I have had good luck with Asus over the years, I think I have owned at least 8 Asus boards and only 1 went bad, which they replaced. The Toughpower PSU should be fine for that setup. The only thing I would do different is a nVidia video card, but I can't argue to hard against the 4850 at that price, it's a good deal.

Quote: Originally Posted by Rob I'd hate to order this stuff, have it show up, and sit on my doorstep for a couple of months during the winter.

..........or someone may take pity on the poor abused hardware and find it a nice home to fold in.......

Well Have a safe trip, and the way the economy is going you might save some more $ in a couple of weeks.

/em smacks face with palm

Well, I did it.

Total cost came up to around $781 after shipping, plus with the $50 in rebates puts me at $730.

Perhaps the most fiscally irresponsible thing I've done since I bought my house. That $730 would have gone a ways in just the little things.

Oh well...I'm sure that I'm going to enjoy my new setup. I just get a little quesy when spending large amounts of money. I was puking for three days when I bought my house. Chances are that I'll have it up and running over the weekend, provided that I get all of the parts in.

So...anyone interested in an Abit NF-7 v. 2.0 mobo, an AMD Athlon 2600+, and a Radeon 9800XT (I think that's what it is), plus some other bits and pieces?

Congrats dude! You will love the upgrage. I upgraded from Socket A to Dual core AMD's to a Q6600. Very nice, very fast. It is a whole new world! Now just get that sucker folding...

E

Glad you listened to reason on that build Rob, you ended up with a rig that will hold you for a couple of years. It's all about buying the right gear at the right time to get maximum performance.

I'll give you $50 plus shipping for the old rig unless you have your heart set on parting it out on ebay. You'll make more money that way but it is a bigger pain in the ass to get rid of. I'll just send it to a young nephew.

Let me sort out what I've got, then I'll PM you with what I can sell, then you can offer a price. I know that I've got some RAM to throw in there, plus a DVD drive, some cables.....I'll just PM you a list of what I've got in there to sell.

Stupid me.

I forgot that my current DVD drives are all IDE, so I ordered a new one. The Blu-Ray drives were a little too expensive so I'll wait for them to come down some.

LG Black 22X (CAV) DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 16X DVD+R DL 22X (CAV) DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 12X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2MB Cache SATA 22X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe - OEM - $28.99