I'm planning on building a new rig for the first time in over three years. I want to stay under $700 for everything but the display and including the OS. I've decided to go with an AMD Athlon 64 x2 but I can't decided if I should go with the Windsor core on the 4800+ or the Brisbane core on the 4600+. Sorry, I'm getting off topic a bit. Here's the question:

What are the top three brands of motherboards for this CPU and specifically which models would you use. This will be primarily a gaming and secondarily an office applications PC with possibly some video editing.

Though I don't think I could afford two video cards now, I would like to have the option to run two in SLI or Crossfire in the future. So in preparation for that, how much wattage would I need in the PSU, and would I need more than one rail? I'll proabaly only have one optical and one HDD.

Lastly, in regard to RAM, I see that 2x2GB kits are going for about $20 more than a 2x1GB kit. Sounds like a good deal. I plan on running Vista Home Premium (that's not set in stone though, so opinions are welcome) does it make sense to have 4GB of RAM in this build?

Thanks in advance,

Wurum
my current system specs:

I'm pretty sure to run 4GB of RAM you need to be running a 64bit OS, so you'd need either Windows XP x64 or a Vista 64bit version.

I can't tell you much more as I'm and Intel guy, but I'd say 600w is pretty standard now if you want the possibility of running 2 high end cards in the future.

Why buy AMD? Intel has the performance crown now and they're got every segment of the market covered....40 - 700 pounds.

Quote: Originally Posted by reflux Why buy AMD? Intel has the performance crown now and they're got every segment of the market covered....40 - 700 pounds.

Here in the US, where we pay for stuff in dollars, the price performance ratio goes to AMD. According to Tom's CPU charts, to get similar performace to the Athlon 64 x2 4800+, I'd have to spend about 100 dollars more. No thanks, I'll stick with AMD. Besides, the CPU market would go to crap if Intel didn't have a competitor.

And BTW, you're not helping.

Jeez can you say douche bag? Toms Hardware is a waste of bandwidth.

I would offer some help and prove you very wrong, if I didn't think you'd completely ignore any suggestions.

Quote: Originally Posted by Wurum Here in the US, where we pay for stuff in dollars, the price performance ratio goes to AMD. According to Tom's CPU charts, to get similar performace to the Athlon 64 x2 4800+, I'd have to spend about 100 dollars more. No thanks, I'll stick with AMD. Besides, the CPU market would go to crap if Intel didn't have a competitor. And BTW, you're not helping.

Yes, thank you, I am aware that the currency of the United States is dollars. Unlike some Americans, being European I have actually been outside my country of origin. I was merely quoting pounds as a way of bringing pricing into context.

In spite of your rudeness, I actually had a go at putting together an Intel system for $700 which would blow an AMD setup out of the water. You can get a setup with a significantly faster E6750 CPU for $683.93, although this leaves the OS and case, speakers and keyboard/mouse to be bought (although you failed to specify whether you needed the last few).

The value and power of the Intel setup rises dramatically if you consider overclocking. Maybe this is not your bag, but if it is, you can get performance vastly in excess of an AMD 4800 for about the same price. Take for example the Pentium E2140 which at $75 of your American dollars is bargaintastic. Using the E2140, the price of the whole setup falls to $568.94, leaving you $131 to buy the rest of the stuff. Clock the E2140 to 3ghz+ and it'll scream past the 4800+. The E6750 would be even better.

Unhelpfully you failed to specify whether you play games or not, so I stuck a Radeon HD3850 in there, but you could save by buying something cheaper if you are not interested in gaming.

Anyways, it's your choice.

Newegg.com - Intel Pentium E2140 Allendale 1.6GHz 1MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor - Retail

Newegg.com - Intel Core 2 Duo E6750 Conroe 2.66GHz 4M shared L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor - Retail

Newegg.com - OCZ Platinum 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail

Newegg.com - ASUS P5K LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail

Newegg.com - DIAMOND 3850PE3256SB Radeon HD 3850 RV650 55nm 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail

Newegg.com - Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3160815AS 160GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM

Newegg.com - SAMSUNG Black 20X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 12X DVD+R DL 20X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 12X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2MB Cache SATA 20X DVD?R DVD Burner - OEM

Newegg.com - HIPER HPU-4M530-PS ATX12V 530W Power Supply 100 - 120V/ 195 - 240V CB, CE, FCC, TUV, cUL - Retail

I wouldn't bother buying Vista as it is significantly slower than XP and costs a fair bit more.

Quote: Originally Posted by Wurum Here in the US, where we pay for stuff in dollars

And here at PCApex, n00b, we treat other members with respect. Particularly members with long upstanding reputations.

Quote: the price performance ratio goes to AMD. According to Tom's CPU charts, to get similar performace to the Athlon 64 x2 4800+, I'd have to spend about 100 dollars more. No thanks, I'll stick with AMD. Besides, the CPU market would go to crap if Intel didn't have a competitor.

Well, that's a perfectly valid answer, even if it does finish with scorn. In the low-end chip market, AMD does have the price-performance benefit.

[edit: I stand corrected. Fortunately for you, n00b, reflux helped you out despite your attitude.]

Quote: Originally Posted by f*ing-idiotresponse And BTW, you're not helping.

And BTW, your attitude will get you no where. Do you want our help or not?

-godling

I'm sorry. I was out of line. I shouldn't have said the things I said. I was just... well I... never mind. You guys know way more about this stuff than I ever will.
Do you forgive me?

reflux, I'm sorry about the smart a$$ reply, thank you for the sample set up and the time it took you to post it.

I vote for reflux's build. The Intell CPU is king for now! The 3850 card is an excellent one. I have another brand of it and it works very well.

E

Quote: Originally Posted by Wurum I'm sorry. I was out of line. I shouldn't have said the things I said. I was just... well I... never mind. You guys know way more about this stuff than I ever will. Do you forgive me? reflux, I'm sorry about the smart a$$ reply, thank you for the sample set up and the time it took you to post it.

Fair enough, I was having a bad day as well. Thank you for apologising. Anyways, what are your thoughts on that setup? Are you still intending AMD? We have a few people who tend to stick in one camp always, but I wanted to make sure you were aware of the options available. Are you intending to OC? And what of my graphics card choice?

Thats a damn fine setup Reflux posted, and nice one on the mature reply Wurum

If you go for the E2140, you'll not only get a damn fine processor but also the fun and personal achievement of overclocking the nuts off it. I have an E4300, stock 1.8Ghz, and was able to overclock it to just under 3.6Ghz with a fairly basic budget motherboard. Obviously at that speed it was faster than pretty much all stock Core 2 Duo CPUs.

Now, get back to us when you've had a think about what you really want to drop $700 on (i.e. an under performing AMD setup, or a superior Intel Core2 setup) and we'll glady help you pick out the surrounding parts

Quote: Originally Posted by Dex Thats a damn fine setup Reflux posted

That *is* a damn fine setup ... I'm building new in a couple months myself, and the specs he threw down are actually in my rather limited price range ... I'll +rep you reflux, but I don't know if you'll actually 'feel' it.

Quote: and nice one on the mature reply Wurum

Yah, that was good. I'll revise my first impression of you.

Quote: Now, get back to us when you've had a think about what you really want to drop $700 on (i.e. an under performing AMD setup, or a superior Intel Core2 setup) and we'll glady help you pick out the surrounding parts

For the record, the 4800+ is a decent chip. It's just that Intel's recent architectures are simply fantastic for OC'ing, and most folks here take advantage of that to get the most bang for their buck. If you're not interested in OCs, an AMD chip might be your safest bet. And if you're a fanboy of AMD, that's okay -- to each his own.

-godling

Well, no, the only thing you should be a fanboy of is "bang for buck". Vendor fanboyism in the long run will just get you left behind the trend and with outdated hardware.

Quote: Originally Posted by godling That *is* a damn fine setup ... I'm building new in a couple months myself, and the specs he threw down are actually in my rather limited price range ... I'll +rep you reflux, but I don't know if you'll actually 'feel' it. For the record, the 4800+ is a decent chip. It's just that Intel's recent architectures are simply fantastic for OC'ing, and most folks here take advantage of that to get the most bang for their buck. If you're not interested in OCs, an AMD chip might be your safest bet. And if you're a fanboy of AMD, that's okay -- to each his own. -godling

Thanks for the rep godling. I agree with your points about the 4800, but the OP hasn't confirmed his intention regarding OCing.

Something to take into consideration though are the new E8xxx Wolfdale and Q9xxx series Yorkfield CPUs which are replacing the current E/Q6xxx lines. They're on sale in a few places in the UK at the moment, so if you were to be able to get hold of one of these I'd recommend the E8400 - 3.0ghz, 6mb L2 cache, 1333mhz FSB. Looks to be coming in at the same price as the E6750.

Quote: Originally Posted by reflux Anyways, what are your thoughts on that setup? Are you still intending AMD? We have a few people who tend to stick in one camp always, but I wanted to make sure you were aware of the options available. Are you intending to OC? And what of my graphics card choice?

Your set up seems good, but once I add the OS and case, it's pricier than I would like. I don't think I can swing the E6750. If I go with the E2140, would I be able to OC it to 3.0ghz with stock cooling?

I like the graphics card choice, but it too is a bit pricy. After reading your post (in another thread) regarding the usefulness of dual graphics cards fora a display below 1680x1050, I'm thinking maybe I shouldn't try to do SLI or Crossfire, that a single card solution would work for me. I'm probably going to get a 22" LCD @ 1680x1050. Would a single card solution mean a different PSU and MOBO?

As you can tell by the fact that my current rig is over 3 years old, I'm not a cutting edge kind of guy, I can't afford it. But that's OK, because I'm so far behind the curve on games, that I can buy old games to run on the oldish hardware and both are cheaper now.

I don't expect to play Crysis on this machine, but I would like to be able to play Battle Field 2 with a better drawing distance so I can see the jets coming.

I also noticed the DVD drive you recommended is SATA, and that some of the comments on newegg suggested problems with that. Why would that be an issue unless you didn't have SATA ports available on the MOBO?

Dreyco said that to run 4GB of RAM I would need a 64 bit version of the OS. Is this right? The only reason I am considering 4GB is because there's a really good deal on it at Fry's. OCZ 2x2GB DDR2 800 PC2 6400 for $55 after MIR.

Quote: Originally Posted by godling And if you're a fanboy of AMD, that's okay -- to each his own.

I've used both Intel and AMD in the past. I am a little partial to AMD, but only because they are they are the underdog and I would like to see them succeed because I believe competition breeds innovation. But I'm far more value driven, and if I can get more bang for the buck then I'm all about that.

And I have OCd before, but only by adjusting the multiplier.

Quote: Originally Posted by Dex I would offer some help and prove you very wrong

Please do. Show me how a OCd E2140 outperforms a similarly priced OCd 4800+


Lastly, thanks for all your input and for giving me another chance.