As many of you know I have been fooling around with water cooling for a while now. I experienced it as most of you have, first was the disbelief, then the curiosity and the "bug" bite. Then money, nervousness, excitement, successful joy, quite a list.

And I have come to some conclusions.

I have been told that electricity and water don't mix, and I have heard some say that they would never recommend water cooling.

I would say that I don't recommend water cooling, at least not across the board, like you would recommend seeing your dentist twice a year.

But I can say that there are viable reasons to water cool. They include environmental, (Hot climates and Noise Reduction), Performance, (the tech-head speed freaks), and just because you want too, (For the hell of it is fine by me).

So if the descission has been made, seconded, and passed for action, then we can get on with the process of selecting components. Many issues come up reguarding this part of the process. They include portability, performance, reliability, upgradability, and cost.

First order of business on my list goes right back to why you wanted to do it to begin with. You see, if you want absolute performance as in the most cooling power you can get, then it will cost you money, and will most likely sound like you have a system made by General Dynamics. But if you are environmentally driven, ie.. you want a near-silent computer, then you have a whole new set of issues to deal with. The last major reason, just because you want too, may encompass elements of both, and truth be told, this catagory of people should probably atempt to accept this as the reason, but then go a step farther and place themselves into one of the other two groups for the purpose of selecting gear.

This is because it is easy to go high performance if you are willing to sacrifice some money and some of your hearing. And it's also easy to go quiet if your willing to accept that you won't be getting the highest OCs, benchmarks, or coldest temps. But to get high performance and quiet computing, and perhaps retain some level of portability, well..... that's a tough nut to crack.

But this I do know from my experience, if you choose a group you can live with, and go all the way right from the start, you will be happier with what you have and spend less money in the long run. There are still several variations and small things you can do depending on your exact needs and where your starting from, but for the most part acknowledging these ideas and choosing which you favor will be to your benefit.

So for those who read what I have to say about water cooling in the future, keep these words in mind. My simple rule is very simple, any decent water cooling system will cool decently. All good systems are either very quiet, or cool very well, but only a great system will do both. I am still working toward a great system. I'll let you know when I get there

ic, i think that doing a dual rad setup with 2 BIX's coming off of an rbx and joined at a res like you stated in another poast will probably put you there. with some very quiet fans, you should be able to get some great numbers without a lot of noise. ic, i never knew you before you left or whatever, but i for one will say im glad youre back. i for one learned more about water cooling in that one post of yours than from all other discussions on this forum (too bad it came a week after i ordered my system from the den lol

Quote: Originally Posted by 4rm4g3dd0n ic, i think that doing a dual rad setup with 2 BIX's coming off of an rbx and joined at a res like you stated in another poast will probably put you there. with some very quiet fans, you should be able to get some great numbers without a lot of noise. ic, i never knew you before you left or whatever, but i for one will say im glad youre back. i for one learned more about water cooling in that one post of yours than from all other discussions on this forum (too bad it came a week after i ordered my system from the den lol

I hate to brake it down like this to ya sport, but the most efficient block out there has only 1 intake and 1outlet, so the thing to have would be a 120.2 thermochill or a black ice extreme ll, 2 x 120mm radiator to allow the coolant a longer time to have the heat trasfered off...
I too have a great respect for IcPiper, however your lack of research in the forums is why you learned "more in one post" than from all other discussions here...or maybe you didn't realize the designer of the "RBX" block is a resident here at pimprig, huh?

whos the desinger zenz?

Quote: Originally Posted by Spc. Forces Bob whos the desinger zenz?

CPU Killer, formerly known as Rokk1972(think it was 72). RBX = Rokk Block.

Actually, RoKk Block Xtreme

I still like my Ford F-250 heatercore more. >

I still like my Ford F-250 heatercore more. >

Quote: Originally Posted by HawkEye_Pierce I still like my Ford F-250 heatercore more. > I still like my Ford F-250 heatercore more. >

OK,OK, already, I heard you the first time...then you'd love a 120.2 or BIE2 alot...best temps to date of all the radiators I've tried.

Armagedon, (sorry I don't do elite ), let me put some things in perspective for you. I don't get the best temps around out of my rig, but they are pretty good and have let me OC pretty good in the past and still maintain comfortable temps. This system is a 3/8" system, not even a 1/2" and uses a medeocre radiator.

So what I am saying is that it's decent, and it cools decent as well. You're observation that a high performance rig would do a good job and you could use quiet fans is probably correct. But I have no intention of converting to 1/2", high flow, and four 120mm fans when a single convection radiator purchase and the removal of all the fans will do the job.

All my gear is external and mounted into my desk, only the water block is inside the case. And my case is a Shuttle SB61G2, one of the XPC systems, so I have no real room inside that case for anything extra. The opening statement wasn't written specificly for my situation and SFF cases. Coming back to PR has me remembering what I did, and what part I played in influencing peoples descissions. But my latest experiences have shown me that there are alternatives that present a new range of possibilities.

Have you guys seen the new case coming out by Zalman, the TNN500A ?
It's a completely passive cooled fan-less case. No vents, nothing, even the PSU is passive. They also have a sweet little passive radiator/reservoir combo that has an internal pump. So what if they combine the two ideas ? What if your passive case had water jackets instead of heat-pipes, what if your radiator was the sides and top of the case.

You can see the new Zalman gear at http://www.zalmanusa.com/ .

No disrespect to lc, he has a wide knowlege of things wet like. And offers some very valuable insights.

I'm with my man Zennzzo on this one 4rm4g3dd0n. If you'd read a few more posts, you'd know with an average pump dual radiators perform no better in parallel than they do in series. It sounds reasonable but turns out to have no advantage to running in series when put to the test. And it's been tested to death.

While it's absolutely true that most radiators have a sweet spot at relatively low flow rates. That flow rate is much lower than any average system is going to use for watercooling. And radiators that use a heater core design such as the Black Ice and Thermochill perform exactly in the same manner as a water block. The more flow....the better cooling. But for all intents and purposes, after you've reached approximately 1 gallon per minute, the dissapation vs. flow rate is pretty much a flat line.

In other words, there is no real advantage to running in paralled OR series. The added pressure drop negates any advantage a parallel system might acheive. And Zenn is absolutely right about the best performing blocks. One inlet...one outlet. The original concept of a three barb block was simply an engineering "conveniece", it offers no measurable performance advantage over a two barb design, despite the claims of some manufacturers.

I'll argue just one thing - "In other words, there is no real advantage to running in paralled OR series. " It's good to have redundancy in the odd event you have two identical pumps and power to waste, but as having multiple loops, it just don't seem like it'd pay off, spare a funky @$$ design.

Just to clear up any misunderstanding lateronmly, I was just addressing running a series vs. parallel radiator loop. Not dual pumps or seperate loops.

But I agree, two pumps in series does have two distinct advantages. Redundancy in case of failure of one and greater pump head. I can see where two distinct loops would work, but it's hard enough to fit one loop in the average case. Double the cost, double the chance of failure...I agree again..."spare a funky @ss design."

The K.I.S.S. principle. One good pump. One efficient radiator.

Quote: Originally Posted by ZENNZZO I too have a great respect for IcPiper, however your lack of research in the forums is why you learned "more in one post" than from all other discussions here...or maybe you didn't realize the designer of the "RBX" block is a resident here at pimprig, huh?

lol well thats not really it at all, but the thing is i really havnt learned all that much about water (other than about heatercores) from pimprig that i didnt already know/could figure out by myeslf. believe me, ive done research. what i was referring to i guess was learning not to be close minded, and in my setup, the dual BIX would probably be my only option if i needed that kind of dissapation cause theres not enough room in my case for a BIX2 and i lan often enough that it would be impractical for an external rad and res setup. but perhaps i shouldnt have said anything zenz, i generally tend to trust u, but i still cant agree with u guys on this one based soley on my situation, hell i could care less if a BIX2 is better than a dual BIX, but i will never be able to have the room so it is 100% irrelevant.

1 more thing i find funny, when icpiper listed that idea in the other thread, he is treated like a genious and awesome water pimp (bigakitas exact words were "the origional water pimp speaketh") and yet here you tell me its a bad idea? make up ur minds yall are like john kerry but less corpse like

also in context of the post i was talking about, it wasnt just an "average pump" as antiM said, it was that beefy blueline, so that does make a difference. quite frankly, i dont really care who designed the rbx, but why would you call it ineffient zenz? i understand that 3 barbs isnt necessary but the way the rbx is designed it looks like it would do a pretty damn good job of moving the heat quickly, and the numbers ive seen on review sites seem to support that claim. finally, i was not referring to seperate loops, i was talking about exactly what icpiper said in the other post, powerful pump going to rbx, then having the 2 barbs go to seperate BIX's joined at a common res, which would eliminate the flow restricting barb alltogether.. i have always known that paralell or series rad would probably have no real advantage, but thats not what i was talking about

ok i shut up now

Hey Zen, I am actually now modding a caprice heatercore, which is a little bigger than the BIX2 but I am modding it so it is now going to be a single pass.

The original inlet and outlet will now be two inlets. I will be using a Y to split the flow effectively slowing the rate at which the water flows through the rad allowing for more cooling time in the rad. On the bottom I am adding a single outlet effectively raising the flow (hopefully close to original-before the Y).

Have you used a single pass heatercore? What heatercores have you used? How did they compare to the therm & BIX's? What do you think of my project? See any weaknesses?

Quote: Originally Posted by lcpiper As many of you know I have been fooling around with water cooling for a while now. ...

Sure, and in China they fooled around with building a wall for a while...

Quote: Originally Posted by FunkyFresh Sure, and in China they fooled around with building a wall for a while...

And us in the colonies fooled around with being our own country for a while.

Somehow the direction of this topic has slide somewhere off in a different direction then the one I had intended. I have to take the hit, I just wasn't clear enough in the original post.

Let me put it this way.

Now that there are some better convection cooling products out on the market, I think that those offering advise should make room for them, and do a little bit of research so your giving sound advise. There are pluses and minuses, just like with everything else, and I for one am trying to become familiar with them

Quote: Originally Posted by 4rm 1 more thing i find funny, when icpiper listed that idea in the other thread, he is treated like a genious and awesome water pimp (bigakitas exact words were "the origional water pimp speaketh") and yet here you tell me its a bad idea? make up ur minds yall are like john kerry but less corpse like

I go back far enough to know that IcPiper has always had the knack for alternatives to the norm...this he is genius for.
I can wrack my brain till 3 sundays from now trying to figure out different approaches to simular configurations, that Ic can look at and give me an idea I would have never come up with. This is the kind of mind this man has. His posts make me think...
I was prolly put off by the discounting of the hard work, money,research,testing and sharing of the results in the forums, that you gave the simple shrug to. Just a "post-check" to make sure props are given where props are earned...

I agree with Zen here; I'd like to see an updated guide to your chiller you built. That is an extremely effective method of cooling without the dangers inherent with pelt cooling.