WilsonKingofPrussia

Hello everyone. I've been running the asetek waterchill cpu only kit with the l20 pump on an asus a7v8x-x with a locked 2500 @ 2.09 ghz (no pci lock kt400) and crap radeon 9200se @ 320/470. I am acquiring a radeon 9800 pro and an asus a7n8x-x tommorrow, and then later on next week a asetek chipset block, an l30 pump, and a nifty swift mcw50-t gpu tec. My question is, how should I run my pumps? Should I just run the l30, or would I see improvements running the l20 in between the chipset and gpu block with the l30 before the cpu? Is my blackice pro good enough? I'm getting 43 C heavy load at stock voltage and 190 fsb. Thanks!

AntiM

While the BI pro can certainly handle the heat from cpu, cpu and chipset and probably even a tec. I think you'll find your temps going up and over clocking room going down. Especially if you add the heat of a second pump. I'd probably run something like L30, cpu, vga, chipset, radiator, L20, res, L30. A lot would depend on the case it's going into as well.

You should get much better head from two pumps. But whether the added back pressure and pump heat are greater than the benefit would be hard to calculate. Much easier to just try it both ways and see for yourself. You would have the benefit of a back-up if one failed, but again the downside of more fittings and of course the room needed to mount both.

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WilsonKingofPrussia

Ok, I'll fiddle with it when it gets in. So I should add another rad in the future? I was thinking about running a system like this l30>cpu>chipset>l20>black ice micro dual 80 mounted in the case exhaust area>tec/gpu>black ice pro mounted where the harddrive cage is>res>l30. I would only have to buy the black ice micro dual 80 and some tubing for that to work. The black ice pro is pretty hefty, so we'll see how it does.

lcpiper

Once you acquire a second Radiator then I would go with two distinctly seperate loops.

One cooling the NorthBridge and CPU with your L30 pump, and use the L20 and other RAD to cool the Vidcard w/TEC.

One large loop with two pumps etc is just not worth it, first, it will not perform better, second it will be a majot hassle to work on.

BTW, how are you powering the TEC, it's a 226W module right ?

EDIT: I did my own reading, this is from Swiftech's site.

Thermoelectric module data, and requirements:
Module hot side is directly submersed into the coolant for optimal heat dissipation.
Power Supply Requirements: minimum 6A at 12 volts
Specifications:
L40xW40xH3.5mm
Qmax: 80.3 w
Imax: 8 amps
Umax: 15.2 v
ΔTmax: 65 °C
Important note: while users may replace the thermoelectric for different power modules, the MCW50-T™ can ONLY be used with 40x40mm physical size modules.


So it's a 72Watt TEC.

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Lokie

Welcome BACK bro! You have been missed.

Even if its only temp. its good to see you posting.

lcpiper

I've been looking around.

From the quality of the help you guys have been giving, it's like I was never gone

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Lokie

We know you were gone, and you were missed.

lcpiper

Maybe so Bro, but there is an issue I have to correct before I can feel right.

Let's see how it goes.

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WilsonKingofPrussia

Is it possible to run two seperate loops that would meet up at the res? I have the room for the pumps and gear but another res would just be to much bull****. Also, if I run two rads, I should put the better of the two on the cpu right? The heatblock on the tec only has to remove heat quickly instead of keep a lower temp right (hope you can follow my thought process)?

Lokie

Icpiper, you do what you have to do, we will be here when you are ready.

Wilson, You should be able to run with one res. but if something happens to one loop. Loss of fluid, contamination, etc...both will be effected.

Hmm tec generat alot of heat to.... But I would say the CPU would be more important for the better rad.

WilsonKingofPrussia

I don't understand though how two loops could be more efficient then one? You would have two unequal pumps pushing unequal loads at unequal temperature running through 2x as much hose. It just seems like a huge loss in efficiency. I don't think that the l20 or l30 generate much heat to the system.

vladimir

Quote: Originally Posted by lcpiper Maybe so Bro, but there is an issue I have to correct before I can feel right. Let's see how it goes.

that lil issue with scape and his camera? lol

welcome back, youve been missed!

lcpiper

Clown, I promise you it was not little to me. I owe that man, I haven't repayed him, and I have not forgotten it.

Back to the pump issue.

You can easily share the reservoir, just takes some moding, no "Y" adapters, that will cause too much restiction to both lines.

If you run two pumps on a single line both will run inefficienly. Even an efficient pump passes heat to the water, two inefficient running pumps will be all the worse.

Besides, let's say you run it all as a single loops and the vid card is getting too hot, how are you going to find out why with all that stuff run together ?

As for which one should get the best cooling gear, calculate the wattage for each, and remember the GPU+TEC both must be cooled. Figure your vid card and TEC at about 100watts, and your CPU at 60+ watts.

Let me tell you where I am getting this so you can adjust the figures as needed.
First, the TEC is going to be a fully powered module as I am sure your PSU can handle the requirements above, 6A @ 12V = 72 watts. And a TEC is a heat pump, it will also pass on the heat from the object being cooled, in this case a lower end GPU that will surely kick out close to 30 watts. Thus, 100 watts for that loop, more if you replace your vid card later on.

For the CPU I pulled this from AMD's website on the Model 10 AthelonXP which is what I think you have.


Thermal Power
Maximum = 68.3 W
Typical = 53.7

Max Die Temp
85 C

So you will have no more then 68.3 Watts at normal speed, overclocking will raise this but not much unless you raise the voltage, that will up things a bit. Stock Voltage for this CPU is 1.65V. So if you increase the voltage by 5% for overclocking then you get a 5% increase in Watts. Simple right ?

So there you have most of the info you will need to figure out what to do.

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WilsonKingofPrussia

The full waterchill setup (l20, black ice pro) is meant to handle 400 watts they say. I'm a bit skeptical about what temperature I would get at 400 watts of Q.

Can you just tell me if an increase in gph would have any gains at all? I think that until I get another rad I'll just run the l30.

EDIT: Still no radeon 9800 pro or mb. Is there no shipping on good friday? Easter is this weekend right?

lcpiper

Quote: Originally Posted by WilsonKingofPrussia The full waterchill setup (l20, black ice pro) is meant to handle 400 watts they say. I'm a bit skeptical about what temperature I would get at 400 watts of Q. Can you just tell me if an increase in gph would have any gains at all? I think that until I get another rad I'll just run the l30. EDIT: Still no radeon 9800 pro or mb. Is there no shipping on good friday? Easter is this weekend right?

The L30 should do the job, but I would record your overclocked settings in the BIOS, and mot OC the vid card till you see how the cooling system is going to do.

That 9800 Pro uses almost twice the wattage of your old card. This is one time when I suggest putting the CPU in front of the vid card. Cool it first, then see if it can cool the vid card properly without the TEC. Then perhaps add the TEC and see how it does. If your close, or have a problem, then you can hold off on the TEC till you get the second Pump and Rad up.

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WilsonKingofPrussia

Thanks. I don't currently have a video card block, and I'm not sure if the swifttech block can be run without the tec on so I believe it will either be tec or stock cooling. I was wondering if it would be possible to somehow install a dimmer on the tec so if it is to much strain I can turn down the wattage. Doesn't seem to hard to do if I have the right parts. Anyone have any suggestions on where to look for a 12v dimmer?

EDIT: Or better yet, a relay hooked up to a water temp sensor that would turn the tec off when the water begins to get to hot.

putwig

If the TEC does not have enough power, it will simply insulate the GPU from the waterblock. Bad idea.

There are many GPU waterblocks that don't use TEC's (including some from Swiftech). You certainly don't need a TEC to cool a GPU.

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WilsonKingofPrussia

Quote: Originally Posted by putwig You certainly don't need a TEC to cool a GPU.

No one needs a tec, but I sure as hell would like one. The overclocking abilities of the radeon 9800 pro will be much higher if I can keep the tec running. The bip will handle it I believe, but I don't know how much cpu headroom I would like to lose.

lcpiper

Here is the place to get specific answers.

Swiftech's page for the MCW50+T

Their data suggests that you should plan for 115W of power with the vid card+TEC combo, I shorted this by 15W because your lower end card. I am sure they based this on the idea that anyone using one would be doing so on a high end card.

They have a lot of good info there for you to read. I have not identified whether or not you can run it without the TEC, but I can't imagine that their Engineer, who is also the owner, (Gab), would have passed up the oportunity to standardize the manufacturing of the base plates for both models. It just doesn't make money sense and he is certainly a businessman

I have spoken with Gab in the past

Edit: BTW, Putwig is absolutely correct about an underpowered or unpowered TEC.

It is because of how a TEC works. You see a current is passed through two dissimilar materials. Of course the resistance produces heat, but what occures as a result is the "Peltier Effect" which is that all of the heat will go to only one side of the TEC module. The resulting effect of this heat transfer is that the other side gets cold and allows it to "Pump" heat from the cold side to the hot side. If you lower the power and reduce the effect, then you lessen the amount of heat that can be passed, and if unpowered the nature of the materials used acts as an insolator and will kill a chip fast.

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BigAkita

Damn lcpiper, it's nice to have you back and posting.

One thing that would be sweet is if you could re-write and update your chiller info. That is one subject that never died.

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