Miller13

Ok... I am building a brand spanking new dual 2200 set up. I want to drop a water cooling unit in it for a little overclocking... nothing too extreme, I just want to be able to get em both over 2.0 ghz. I need some recommendations on a good dual mp board and a nice water setup so i can do this. I plan to put a G of ram in it, so that needs to be taken into consideration. I have looked at alot of dual processor boards an most of them only support DDR2100. I was really hoping for DDR3200, but I guess u can't win em all.

scapegoat

True Miller i belive you out of luck on the DDR3200 boards.....i have yet to see a Dualy yet for that. Im not an expert on a Watercooled setup, so i will leave that for Putwig, or lcpiper. whoever gets here first

As for a Dualy Mobo, what platform are you looking for, Intel or AMD??

abyssling

For overclocking your best options are the Iwill mpx2, not for beginners, very hard to get working well, but if you know what you are doing you can crest 166fsb easily and Ive heard of people pushing 185, again i say, many people have had issues with this board but for some its performing WAY better than any other dually athlon

the other more popular option that can get you stable at 160ish fsb without too many hassles is the MSI K7D-Master

Id personally recommend the MSI board unless you are very very knowledgeable, also the MSI board overclocks pretty easy with lots of BIOS options like vcore and multiplier adjustments

I am currently running an Asus a7m266d with 2 1900 MPs and Ive had a hard time getting anything better than 145fsb and even then i cant finish a 3dmark, but I have heat issues (which will be remedied this weekend as soon as I finish installing my watercooling stuff)

As for watercooling advice, ill let icpiper or putwig assist you there, or maybe i can be of some assistance once I get my watercooling completed. anything i could tell you now though would be pure speculation

for good SMP advice check out the forums at 2cpu.com. those guys are very knowledgeable

*edit* BTW all dually athlon boards use pretty much the same chipset except for the first tyan dually boards, however they all use pc2100. also these chipsets are really finicky about their ram, dont even think about putting anything less than registered name brand ram in it (corsair, mushkin etc) unless you want a serious headache, they are also very power hungry, even air cooled you are looking at a 430 watt psu bare minimum

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lcpiper

Miller13, both these guys are good with this stuff and can probably help you through the duelly issues so I will try and stick to the cooling part of it.

If you don't have a good sized case then you are going to have issues. But the first thing I need to be sure of is why you are thinking about water cooling.
I take it that it is for the performance/overclocking.
If you also want quiet, and or easy portability, then I will need to know that too along with how much money you are willing to spend.

The combinations of all these answers will give me a better idea of what will work best and what the cost will be.

I will also be able to suggest excellent alternatives if a water cooling solution looks too tough, (you can have your cake and eat it too, but only if the circumstances are right ).

One last thing, if your still in the planning stage, please don't be in a hurry to order the gear, not even the mobo. A water cooling rig has requirements and if you order too fast then we might have to work around something that could have been avoided, so please don't get in a hurry. It takes a little time for us to think things through when it isn't sitting right in front of us, plus, I am old but I do still sleep (sometimes even with my wife) and so you might even see a day lag time for a responce, but not longer.

CYA

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Miller13

OK... well I am wanting to do the water cooling, because I think that is really cool. I know that sounds stupid, but I have been building systems for a while and I just kinda wanted to do one. I don't want to do anything that is going to keep me awake for months trying to figure out what the hell is wrong with it... I am yet to buy anything, but I always plan ahead so thats why I wanted to get some expert advice.

lcpiper

Nothing wrong with that answer at all, it's the same reason I got into it, I just wanted too.

So if you can sort of lay out your priorities from the questions above I will see what I can come up with for you.

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Miller13

Ok... well obviously I am wanting to do the water cooling for the performance and overclocking. Noise is not really and issue... I got so many fans and hard drives in my cases that I am oblivious to the sound. But one thing that I would like out of a cooling setup is to be able to hook it up to my Video Card and my hard drives. I have seen it done, and I was wondering if it is really difficult. My Friend and I are going to start a computer shop locally, so we figured that doin one of these could get catch some people's eyes and possible drum up some more business. (Plus I get really kick a$$ puter out the deal)

lcpiper

OK, well here it goes for starters.

We had another guy here that was going to water cool a number of HDs and up-front and honest, this is expensive to do. So I really need a price range of what you can afford to spend, or, how much up front you can spend and I can lay out an upgrade/additions path so that you can add more as you go with the least number of hassles.

How portable does it need to be, and how big is your case?

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putwig

Too funny lcpiper! I got into water just for the challenge as well.
The oc and quiet were just added perks!

My opinion.

Water cooled HDD's, northbridges, ram (yes it is done) is not necessary for normal day to day operation.

If you were going to extreme oc your proc with phase change or peltier (or liquid N2 on a test bed), then water on the northbridge and ram might push you into the overclocking elite.

I think processor and GPU liquid cooling are reasonable choices. And in your case would already amount to 3 waterblocks. This alone is an ample job for a mid to high range pump.

Can you cool everything in your rig with H2O?
Yep!
Do you need to?
Nope!
Would it give you a performance edge?
Prolly not (see above)
Would it be cool?
damn straight

So, it is really up to you. But I would seriously consider two procs and a GPU to be an ambitious first time project.

Alternatively you would be looking at (2 x proc, northy, GPU, 2 x HDD) 6 or more blocks (depending on number of HDD's). This is definately gonna cost you big bucks, will have huge space limitations, and will very likely require two pumps and two rads.

Let us know what you are thinking......we are always here for help and suggestions.

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lcpiper

Oh, and I also agree with Putwig about what sorta falls into the "overkill" department when it comes to water cooling. Processors sure, GPU's and Northy, OK. HD's, RAM, PSU's (only if your trying to go almost fan-less.

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flounder405

Ok Icpiper and Putwig ,
This seems like a good place to ask a question since this guy is setting up a system in the very new future.Got a idea or thought have you or anyone else ever or thought about putting the pump first , radiator,then reservoir. Would the pump be able to (it should) push the flow through all the paths and then to the cpu.Reason I am asking is because when i use to keep fish you would be surprised how much heat builds up going through the pump.Usually 5 or sometimes more degrees.Seems picky but if it could happen why not squeeze a few more degrees out of it?

lcpiper

Your right, the pump will add heat to the water, but since your dealing with a system you gota look at all of it.

First off, the only thing really doing any cooling is the radiator. Sure, you will get a very small amount of convection cooling through the tubing and reservoir, but nothing much.

With the exception of large external reservoirs, all that a reservoir will do for you is make it easy to fill the system, remove air bubbles, and slow the amount of time it takes for your system to hit it's maximum operating temperature.

Now let's get to your specific question, it makes no difference what order the components are in when it comes to circulation. The total resistance to the water flow is the same reguardless of the order. But it does make a difference in cooling performance. I am a firm believer in three concepts;

First, because heat transfer is greatest when you have a good difference between the temp of the component and the water temp, I favor cooling the coolest component first, then the next hottest and so on.

Second, I beleive you should remove the heat as fast as possible by placeing the radiator right after the last component you are cooling.

Three, the best radiator setup is external or ducted, (isolated from the rest of the case). The next best is as an exhaust so that the heat is removed from the case and not dumped back in. The worst is as an intake, yes it gets cooler air then as an exhaust, (but only by a couple of degrees), but the heat from the radiator raises you case temps by a greater level effecting everything else, (tough to get a good OC when your RAM and other components are being heated).

These are basic ideas that I still hold to, but it doesn't mean that you can't violate them to a degree, (no pun intended). The size of your case and other factors may force you to adjust a little and we are talking about small differences overall. If this all made a huge difference then it would have been obvious to everyone how to set a system up because it would only work one way.

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putwig

I agree with Piper on all but one point.

I believe the radiator should be placed directly before the water blocks. Thus providing the coolest possible water to the cpu.

The disadvantage, in theory, is that the warm post-cpu water stays in the case longer. But realistically, my total system contains about 2 cups of fluid so the turnover is extremely rapid.

And my radiator fan is ducted to the outside. So what marginal increase in case temp might occur....it has no bearing on my radiator cooling and my cpu temp.

If your case is reasonably well ventilated, I think the maximum benefit arises with the coolest possible water hitting that cpu.

Piper's point might be more relevant in a case that uses case air to cool the rad as exhaust (piper's example number 2).

2 cents

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