So it's ok to come out about such things but, those tax paying citizens can't get married?

Great post, Ana! Keep 'em coming!

Rob

Quote: Originally Posted by DuckWarrior In a day and age where its illegal to even carry a bible in shool, use the word "God" and go to Jail at 13...Now you can "come out" in school and it's not only ok, but the public schools have a "National Day" dedicated to it! I hate the freakin Public school system!

word...

mixed messages, political correctness at it worst; we're trying to make everyone happy by screwing Joe Citizen in favor of Special Ed.

we should be allowed to give a five finger discount (smack) to the morons who come up with this crap

Yes, please come out where we can see you. I need a good laugh.

Quote: Originally Posted by DuckWarrior In a day and age where its illegal to even carry a bible in shool, use the word "God" and go to Jail at 13...Now you can "come out" in school and it's not only ok, but the public schools have a "National Day" dedicated to it! I hate the freakin Public school system!

Carrying a bible shouldn't be illegal, but "coming out day" is a completely seperate issue. I see it as nothing but progress.

It's not a seperate issue at all. It just shows how screwed up our society is. Throw away the bibles and bring on the fruitcakes. Nice.

It's illegal to carry a bible in a public school?

I seriously doubt that it would be illegal. To do so would be a restriction on the First Amendment. Religion is usually only considered "illegal" when it makes use of government sponsored facilities, such as using the loudspeakers to pray before a game. Our private Christian school actually cannot hold chapel in the new gym we built a few years ago because the grant is secured by the government. Thus, we cannot hold a religious ceremony in it. Dont you freaking love the state our country is in?

Quote: Originally Posted by dontbugme It's not a seperate issue at all. It just shows how screwed up our society is. Throw away the bibles and bring on the fruitcakes. Nice.

You're looking at how screwed up it is. Whoever got this guy's reputation back up to the positives is just as bad. You give a bad name to Christians and don't seem to understand the point of "freedom". What does a gay lifestyle have to do with you? Is it a need for superiority? Because you're only sinking lower

my public high school wouldn't allow us to have a bible study club or a caucasian student union on campus even though there was a jewish student union, an islamic club, asian student union, black student union, etc.

seems like this country is going into reverse racism now . ..

Quote: Originally Posted by _Sexy_Pants_ You're looking at how screwed up it is. Whoever got this guy's reputation back up to the positives is just as bad. You give a bad name to Christians and don't seem to understand the point of "freedom". What does a gay lifestyle have to do with you? Is it a need for superiority? Because you're only sinking lower

I think dontbugme was being sarcastic since the first part of his post does say that he thinks our society is messed up because of it . ..

Didn't want to change this into a religious theme, but it looks like this is where it's headed. Sorry Anathema but I feel the need to speak out on this issue. I owe it to my friends and my own self-respect.

As far as using the Christian bible as a basis for your dislike of homosexuality, isn't that being a little hypocritical? The Christian bible does specifically condemn divorce, yet it is an acceptable practice among all Christians. One of the Christian's Ten Commandments specifically state that adultery goes against its' god; yet, no one supports a Constitutional amendment to ban adultery.

Too many Christians read too much into the Old Testament, strictly to support their moral interpretation of "normal human behavior". I would much rather prefer that Christians spend more of their time reading the New Testament in which the Christian god commands all Christians to love one another.

My opinion on the matter? I fully support recognizing gay marriages for one simple fact. A man who rapes a woman, according to our laws, is entitled to exercise his parental rights, up to and including the ability to authorize the cessation of life support for that child. The same holds true for some 17-year-old male who knocks up his 16-year-old girlfriend at prom and gets married to the woman "because it's the right thing to do", then gets divorced three years later because they were too young to realize that they made a mistake.

A gay couple, on the other hand, has to willfully make that decision to raise a child. They've already made that commitment from the moment of birth/adoption to that child's last dying day. They've thought out their life by including the child in their decisions.

So why in the world would I ever want to not have two people who love each other give parental love to a child as opposed to that child growing up without parents in some orphanage? I just spent the past 20 minutes trying to find some stats on how many orphaned children we have in this world and you know what? I can't find it anywhere but when you are talking about over 2,00,000 million children in Africa becoming orphans because of the AIDS epidemic compared to the 160,000 children adopted in America alone...well, I'd hate to be the one to tell a orphaned child that they can't live with two grown adults in a house of love (not sex, I said love).

How is it degrading society? Are the men raping men in the streets? Are the women being raped in the streets? Does your marriage mean less to you now because two people of the same sex are enjoying the same rights as a heterosexual couple? Homosexuality has been around since the dawn of time. Only religion has caused people to be ashamed of it like it was a disease or something. Now, I fully respect your religion and your right to practice it. It's just that your religion isn't practiced by everyone.

It saddens me to see all the hate in this world. It only leads to conflict, misunderstanding, and eventually, violence. If we were only to open our minds as well as our hearts, hopefully one day this world will be a place of peace.

Sorry for getting so philosophical, but that's simply my viewpoint on it.

Rob

ok, it's a given that the public school system can be totally whacked, but i think anathema's point/thread is about the capacity for tolerance. People should neither have to live in shame and fear because they are attracted to members of the same sex, nor should they be persecuted for it. The same also applies to race, religion, etc. I think that some of the other points that have been raised in this thread are very valid. If you want to carry a bible in public school and can't, if you want to have a caucasian student union on campus and can't, then you are a victim of intolerance. It sucks, doesn't it?

EDIT: well said Rob

yer all gay and you know it, so come out already

...im not gay tho....no way.......but Hawklen is.....

Quote: Originally Posted by Fu3lman yer all gay and you know it, so come out already ...im not gay tho....no way.......but Hawklen is.....

Fuel, your not gay but your boyfriend is.

Leave it to Fuel and NoSlak to bring a little levity back into this...

Anyway, first off I would like to say "Well said Rob" And to add my $0.02...My biggest issue is the "do what I say not as I do" approach North America in general has. For instance, the last 30 years we have been trying to bring the Israelites and Palestinian people towards a state of tolerance for each other. This is immensely hard to do specifically for the fact there is an ingrown hatred sewn so deep from birth for each other. But we keep trying as we "know" its the only way to bring peace. However, when it comes to tolerance of other ethnic groups, religions and ways of life in general in our own backyard we are very slow to act if we act at all. I would like to believe that the majority of folks within NA are not born with a that type of hatred. However there are still a few that preach hatred in one form or another but we seem to almost protect them under free speech. These problems then seem to brew under a blind eye until something big happens to wake us up. Then in a fit of panic we act it but it's a knee jerk reaction derived from a single dumbass ruling somewhere that doesn't really solve the problem just puts a generic band-aid on it. Kinda like the no cologne/perfume rules in a lot of workplaces...don't want to offend someones nose...

Quote: Originally Posted by Rob As far as using the Christian bible as a basis for your dislike of homosexuality, isn't that being a little hypocritical? The Christian bible does specifically condemn divorce, yet it is an acceptable practice among all Christians. One of the Christian's Ten Commandments specifically state that adultery goes against its' god; yet, no one supports a Constitutional amendment to ban adultery.

Rob, stating that divorce is an acceptable practice among all Christians would be misinformed. I believe in Jesus Christ, so yes, I consider myself a Christian, but no, I do not believe in divorce. Divorce is the seperation of someting that has been made one in God's eyes. However, the Bible does support divorce of certain kinds. Situations of physical harm, mental harm, and certain other situations are allowed under a Biblical interpretation of the New and Old Testament law. Divorce should only be seen as a last resort, after all other methods have been exhausted. I would hope that Christians don't openly advocated divorce. Christians dont claim to be faultless (if they do, I would question their sanity). To say that we never commit a sin would be laughable. This of course brings in the areas of repentance and forgiveness.

Quote: Originally Posted by Rob Too many Christians read too much into the Old Testament, strictly to support their moral interpretation of "normal human behavior". I would much rather prefer that Christians spend more of their time reading the New Testament in which the Christian god commands all Christians to love one another.

Are you stating that the Old Testament and New Testament contradict eachother? It seems to me that both the OT and NT provide a viewpoint of love, forgiveness, and mercy. The Christian life isnt "normal human behavior". All are fallen, and have a natural inclination to sin. Thus, natural human behavior would be seen as the behavior of the fallen world. A Christian life should be set above that, and the standards are set by Jesus and his followers, seen in both the OT and NT.
God commands us to love our neighbor as ourself, and in loving them, we can't let somebody live in sin as a day to day occurence. This is why we have a problem with homosexuality, and especially homosexual unions. Advocating the lifestyle seen as sinful by the Christian faith would be a large loss in the fight to redeem the culture that we live in.
Im up for continuing the discussion via PM's if you want. I love a good discussion.

Quote: Originally Posted by Enko I think dontbugme was being sarcastic since the first part of his post does say that he thinks our society is messed up because of it . ..

Thank you, I was being sarcastic. I must also admit that sarcastic remarks have no place in a discussion as serious as this and I apologize.

Quote: Originally Posted by dontbugme Thank you, I was being sarcastic. I must also admit that sarcastic remarks have no place in a discussion as serious as this and I apologize.

Alright, I apologize back. Sarcasm's a little harder to pick up in writing, especially from a new member.
You had me sooo steamed though