Quote: Originally Posted by AP WASHINGTON - The U.S. discriminates against blind people by printing paper money that makes it impossible for them to distinguish the bills' value, a federal appeals court ruled Tuesday. The ruling upholds a decision by a lower court in 2006. It could force the Treasury Department to redesign its money. Suggested changes have ranged from making bills different sizes to printing them with raised markings. The U.S. acknowledges that the design hinders blind people but it argued they had adapted: some relied on store clerks for help, some used credit cards and others folded certain corners to help distinguish the bills. But the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit ruled 2-1 that such adaptations were insufficient. The government might as well argue that, since handicapped people can crawl on all fours or ask for help from strangers, there's no need to make buildings wheelchair accessible, the court said. The court also ruled that the U.S. failed to explain why changing the money would be an undue burden. The Treasury Department has redesigned its currency several times in recent years and adding features to aid the blind would come at a relatively small cost, the court said. Other countries have added such features, the court said, and the U.S. never explained what made its situation so unique.

So what do you think?

I can't really find a fault in the court's logic.

That being said, what do you think is the best way to address this?

A sound argument from the court I think. Putting braille into the notes would probably be the best way. No such system here but our bank notes are all different sizes, from the small £5 note to the large £50 (quite rare now... although my uncle always has a few in his wallet).

I wouldn't mind indented bills, but I hate bills of different sizes. I like to be able to stack all money in one neat pile and with different sized bills it works but it looks funny and makes me very angry.

I think different sizes is fine, although this is coming from somebody who wads his cash together like an 8 year old. While they're at it, can they take away that stupid looking huge five on the fiver?

Different sized bill would be a non-starter in my opinion... too many ATMs, Vending Machines, Slot Machines, etc... to reconfigure.

I'd rather have gold coins, if not braille cash then.

Quote: Originally Posted by Master Yunk I'd rather have gold coins, if not braille cash then.

currency is overrated, how about direct exchange of goods

I can't find any fault with the court's logic either, except that they don't give any suggestions on how to address the issue.

Like stated, different size bills will cause all kinds of problems with everything from vending machine to ATMs to change machines to toll booths. So *that* is an undue burden on society as a whole. Whatever change they make to the bills it has to be something that does not change the properties so much that all the automated stuff doesn't work.

Quote: Originally Posted by DickNervous I can't find any fault with the court's logic either, except that they don't give any suggestions on how to address the issue.

To be fair thats not really their responsibility. They sort out arguments, not fix them (except when they send the bad guys to jail )

Hard currency is so last century, plastic for the win. It's only abroad that I use bills or change.

Over here (and in Australia) we have different sized bills - and they are different colours for ease of recognition

The ATM's, currency counters and vision impared have no problems with them whatsoever

... now, if I could only have enough of them to make into a small pile
... does two notes constitute a stack??

Sorry I am simple minded. I am still stumped on how the blind people find their way to the drive up atms to use the braille characters on them.

Sorry, I understand it's an issue but it comes down to other problems involved here. The general public feels no empathy any more and will not help the disabled. The blind wouldn't need specially marked cash if they felt they could trust the other party to be honest. To many people are willing to lie, cheat and steal to get a few measly bucks from somebody less fortunate.

As a solution, New bills can easily be felt and they all have a different feel to them. The size and placement of the denomination in the corners is different for each. The are intaglio printed so they already have a form of braille built in. The ink around the numbers are raised versus the background. The problem with braille or any other raised means is that very quickly as a bill is used those features soften and disappear. You would have to insert some sort of hard media into the paper of the bill just like the denomination stripe.

From the looks of this page, Bureau of Engraving and Printing They have been working on this problem for a while and just not gotten anywhere.

I guess the problem with braile would be that how easily would it become "pressed" back out of the bill? If it gets flattened too many times, will it read a new donomination? I guess they could move the encoding strip to a hard plastic and put the braile characters into that, but it might just make removal of the strip easy.

I think I have a solution though...

Actually put holes in the money. A few small holes could be felt, wouldn't press out and probably wouldn't degrade the life of the money. a single hole for a one, two for a five, three for a ten, four for a twenty, etc...

If we converted to these

Yapping About Money: The Stone Money of Yap

Well this may not be the answer to this issue but it sure would help my savings grow.

The US has become the whipping post for so many small intrest groups why not accomodate
this request too.

Do you think that they will have to print the brail in Spanish, Arabic and Chinese too?
What about def people should everyone be required to learn sign language?

What about keeping the same size but adding different-feeling strips onto the bill? It would stay flat and probably still work in ATMs etc.

Just seen a small bit of coverage on this story on Sky News. Apparently the US is the only country from the major 180 countries in the world that doesn't have different size banknotes.

Quote: Originally Posted by Sky News Only in the US would this make a law suit, everywhere else its just common sense

Ya know - it couldve gone something like this:

After years of ignoring blind folks, Treasury gets sued. And on taking a second look at the issue, they realize that the USA is one of only 180 nations who doesn't have different sized bills. And since they have to redesign the currency on a regular basis to defeat counterfeiters anyway, they could slipstream in the changes with plenty of notice to the public. It stimulates the economy: everybody has to redesign and upgrade currency stuff - from ATMS to cash register drawers to change makers to commenerative clear plastic money sleeves. And Treasury becomes the good guy for making life a little easier for the blind.

But no
Treasury acts like a typical Government agency
"Sue us. We don't care"
Doesn't cost them anything - it costs us taxpayers. Twice - once for the ceaseless litigation, once for the changeover.
And we all know what lawyers cost. Especially Justice Department lawyers - some of whom should have slapped Treasury silly and said "Obey the law you useless dungheaps" and avoided all this.
And no one at Treasury who made this stupid decision will suffer. Track it back and it's some big contributor to the Republican or Democratic party [yeah the lawsuit may go back all the way to the Clinton administration who knows] who will get a big fat cushy lobbyist job probably arguing for tax breaks for all the 'affected' businesses who now have to upgrade for different sized currencies.

Look around. the US Government is probably defending itself in a 100 lawsuits that the vast majority of people would go "WTF?" We could save the cost of a month of warfare in some country most Americans can't find on the map [oh say Iraq] if Justice would just say "We're wrong - we'll settle".

But that is apparently not the American way. Apparently the American way is Justice Dept. appeals endlessly and whether they win or lose Justice Dept. doen't get a ding. Only if they settle does Justice get a ding.

My blind guy story: In the basement snack shop of the Dekalb County courthouse the cashier is blind. He was hired under the affirmative action program the county runs. There's a sign to that effect.

Last time I was in there someone [other than he] has posted a handwritten note about how she knew [it just felt like a woman wrote it] some folks were handing him a one and claiming it was a 5 and so on.

Now he couldn't see the note and didn't know he had a guardian angel. The ironic thing for me was that the majority of people in that building day in and day out are cops, lawyers, judges and clerks. You got the skunkiness to rip-off a blind guy in the middle of cop central imagine how those folks would take advantage of blind people out in the real world.

I tried to get Treasury to make the dollar coin with a square hole in the middle like old Chinese coins. Treasury ignored me of course cause I'm a nobody. The change in money size is overdue.

-MF

Sorry if I offend , but im gonna be the "A$$****" here . Although I get the point , I dont see why the government or taxpayers should foot the bill for making life easier for blind people. Im really quite fed up with every special interest group thinking because they have a certain need the rest of us have to foot the bill for it. This isnt just about handicapped people either, its about any and all minorities , handicapped, gay, races, Prisoners, Immigrents, blah blah blah etc etc etc

I'm a REDNECK , so by god I want a price break on my BEER!! **yes its silly, but that what this world has come to**

Does anyone remember the days when you just played the hand you were delt and didnt whine or cry about how everyone else had to make your life easier?

If your blind and want money made to suit your needs , thats cool , YOU PAY for the revamp of the printing equipment. Dont tie up the friggin court systems with your drivel



Ok end of rant

Your right Mace, why should we care about people less fortunate than us?

Maybe the US goverment could have used some of the BILLIONs of dollars its spent on the military in the last decade to pay for this. I don't hear anyone complaining about their tax dollars going into pointless numbers of nuclear missiles and the like... but the BLIND?! HELL NO SCREW THEM!

I hear what you're saying about every little special group getting its bitch on about something or another, but come on, blind people? As I stated in a previous post, every other country had this licked ages ago.

You could probably do it for the cost of one nuke

Heres what your taxes went to last year Mace


Source: 43% Percent of Your 2007 Taxes Go to War - FCNL Issues

Surely theres room in their for the blind.

I see your point Dex, and maybe I was being a bit harsh. Unfortunatly , for every good thing like this , if the government does do something about it you can bet that they'll be hammer'd by 20 more groups screaming about "getting thier just due"

Its just getting out of hand, and it always seems that things like the school systems or the old folks or medicine end up gettting cut to pay for it.

EDIT - Yup loads of money spent on the military , but thats one place I myself wouldnt want to cut back. I would however like the money to go to the soldiers THEY ALL DESERVE RAISES!!.