Okay... so I was working until 2:00AM this moring... driving back from Great Falls, and I had to wonder what it would be like to not own a car.

Here's a few things to consider:

1. The average price of a new car is around $15,000.00 (roughly). For calculations sake, without interest...

On a four year note, that would be: 312.50 a month (again... without finance charges)

This would be $3,750 per year

2. Then you have ye olde insurance... for a new car, it can be quite high.

We'll average it out and say $175.00 a month for a new car as a new car loan requires you to keep full coverage.

This is $2100 a year.

3. Okay, so licensing a new car is expensive. We'll average this one out and say the registration is $500.00 a year (this can be cheap in some areas, and expensive in others). That's roughly $42.00 a month.

4. Depending on the gas consumption of the vehicle, we'll average it to 25 MPG with an average yearly milage of 20,000 miles (AAA estimate).

We'll round off gas and say it's $3.00 a gallon.

This is an additional $2,400.00 a year.

5. Let's figure in maintenance on a slightly older new car. This means that there are oil changes and the like. We'll say an oil change is $30.00 and it is done four times a year.

That's another $120.00 a year.. in just oil. Let's not forget tires, belts, hoses, and the like.

6. Most guys will usually put at least some money into modifications. I won't include it in the totals just to be fair... but it's a consideration.

7. How much money does the government spend to maintain roads, install traffic signs/lights/etc... and don't forget paying the highway patrol and the like. I also won't include that in, but when you look at the sheer volume of road construction and expansions... it's probably not just measured in the millions...

8. We could also include health care costs, as most of us don't really walk anywhere anymore... as we get fat, health insurance goes up, as does the costs of health care related to the pollution that cars spew.

9. One could also argue the costs associated with car accidents and the like... but that's also another story.

10. Isn't it interesting a single person buying a new car can spend up to roughly $8,370.00 per year? That can be a low estimate depending on the age, driving record and habits of the person driving the car. That also doesn't include finance charges, or anything else that can possibly happen.

Considering that can be most of what some people make in a year... it seems kind of odd we're all so eager to buy a car! Don't get me wrong, I love to drive and I enjoy it...

I guess what mostly got me thinking about it is that I blew through $150.00 in gas (and that was 85 octane crap!)... in one day. Thankfully, that's not my bill (company vehicle on company business), but it makes a person think about how cheap a pair of shoes are!

You might be saving that money, but you will end up spending some of it taking busrides, paying friends gas money, shopping at convenience stores closeby, etc.

I'd much rather pay for a car, insurance, roads, etc. than to not have a ride.

Quote: Originally Posted by turbopsi You might be saving that money, but you will end up spending some of it taking busrides, paying friends gas money, shopping at convenience stores closeby, etc. I'd much rather pay for a car, insurance, roads, etc. than to not have a ride.

I don't know... I've been thinking about moving to a "green" city when they've halted urban sprawl by making everything fairly centralized. Basically, a good bicycle costs a helluva lot less than a car...

Quote: Originally Posted by Darksamurai I don't know... I've been thinking about moving to a "green" city when they've halted urban sprawl by making everything fairly centralized. Basically, a good bicycle costs a helluva lot less than a car...

Well if you live in a place where everything is centralized then it wouldn't be a problem. I usually have to go from one side of town to the other for anything.

What about riding around partying too? Road trips? I couldn't live without a vehicle.

Quote: Originally Posted by turbopsi Well if you live in a place where everything is centralized then it wouldn't be a problem. I usually have to go from one side of town to the other for anything. What about riding around partying too? Road trips? I couldn't live without a vehicle.

Yeah, I live in Montana and I've lived in North Dakota (45 miles from the nearest town), Colorado (used to get bused in 25 miles to school) and beyond... believe me... I know what being dependant on a car is like... one of the reasons I'm curious to what it would be like to not have to rely on the bloody thing!

A world without cars is a sad lonely world.

I think about my trip to Arkansas recently. We left Central Kansas in the morning and were in Southern Arkansas by that afternoon, and that was with plenty of food and rest breaks. If someone were to attempt that on horse or in a wagon, it would take over a week to complete. The world is much smaller now, and with the pace of technology I can't imagine what it will be like in just 20 years. Can't wait to find out.

Quote: Originally Posted by BigAkita I think about my trip to Arkansas recently. We left Central Kansas in the morning and were in Southern Arkansas by that afternoon, and that was with plenty of food and rest breaks. If someone were to attempt that on horse or in a wagon, it would take over a week to complete. The world is much smaller now, and with the pace of technology I can't imagine what it will be like in just 20 years. Can't wait to find out.

Yeah, I had a nifty 500 mile day yesterday... I've had up to 800 in a day (I think 1,200 was my all time best). It's not fun, but it is a helluva lot better than walking.

Still, the cost of ownership are quite high and the pollution factor is an issue. I'm also not goin' holier-than-thou... Hell, I drive my little truck everywhere when I know my Honda gets better milage... but I'm just curious (and a little afraid, I have to admit) to be without a vehicle... I've always relied upon them.

What got me thinkin' about it is in "Supersize me" he talks about how far New Yorkers walk in a day and that most New Yorkers don't own cars. This almost seems blasphemous to a guy like me, as I've always lived in areas where "public transportation" means you bum a ride from a friend.

Anyway... curious issue... I might have to try it some year, if the opportunity arises.

While I can't see giving up a car anytime in the near future for long trips, hauling heavy loads, etc...I have been lessening my dependence on it. No, it's not out of any tree-hugging guilt trips about the environment...it's just simply cheaper.

My move to work at the bike shop included a pay decrease from carpenter's wages, but by lessening my dependence on my tool-laden truck (which isn't a real gas hog anyway), by buying an economical sedan, fixing up a pair of Honda Spree scooters we picked up cheap from the neighbor (the missus uses it to go get the mail instead of firing up the car), and riding my bike or walking, I can afford to live on less.

I could tout the environmentalist party line since I do work at a bike shop, but I won't. As Samurai pointed out, it's a simple matter of economics. We often get customers in the shop that apparently haven't priced bicycles since Hoover was in office (or are comparing to X-Mart's full-scale models of bicycles ), and they often claim that the bikes are too expensive (entry level bikes of shop quality brand names start in the $200-300 range, depending on type). Once you started calculating the actual costs of owning and operating a motor vehicle, the bicycle becomes a real bargain, and pays for itself in a very short time in saved fuel costs, insurance reductions for less annual mileage, health benefits, etc, etc.

Years ago when my budget was severely pinched, I started looking at ways to cut some fat out of how I was living. I calculated my cost of ownership for two automobiles at roughly 25% of my annual income, and this was for cars that were paid for and economical! It made me sick then, but at the time I wasn't willing to make the sacrifices necessary, and the solution was to work more and work harder at trying to make more money. The result was lots of overtime, stress from having to take on jobs for people I didn't want to do business with (but had to because I needed the money), less time with my family and more time spent commuting, more money spent on decompressing from the stress which led to side jobs to pay for it all...vicious cycle.

By simplifying my life, I am now able to do the work I love, live healthier and happier, and have the money that I would've been spending on cars to do better things with...like having fun. If the environment benefits from it, that's just a fortuitous side effect.

My truck is pushing 370HP now. I don't know what my zero to 60 speed is but I know it is only a few seconds. Know what I use all that power for? To get back and forth to work.

My wife's Caravan is reaching the end of it's life, and we have been discussing the replacement. I want the '08 Challenger, but we will probably go with a high mileage luxury import. I never thought I would consider something like that, but it makes more sense every day and with every gas pump stop I make with my truck.

Without a car I wouldn't have been able to help my sister move this weekend. Round trip was about 1000 miles in two days. Even daily life wouldn't be very entertaining. I live aprox 12 miles from work which isn't out of reach on a bicycle but it is all highway miles. They aren't safe on 4 wheels let alone any form of 2 wheel transport. I might walk to the corner mini-market or ride the bike down the road to the local restaurant but thats the extent of whats safe around here.

As for what the car costs. $400 monthly payments, $120 monthly insurance, $100 month easy for gas. I was so close to having the last car payed off and finally be out from under loan payments and the friggin thing started giving me all kinds of trouble. So here I am again with a new car and a fresh warranty all along being buried in debt.

Quote: Originally Posted by BigAkita My truck is pushing 370HP now. I don't know what my zero to 60 speed is but I know it is only a few seconds. Know what I use all that power for? To get back and forth to work. My wife's Caravan is reaching the end of it's life, and we have been discussing the replacement. I want the '08 Challenger, but we will probably go with a high mileage luxury import. I never thought I would consider something like that, but it makes more sense every day and with every gas pump stop I make with my truck.

BigAkita turning down an 08' Challenger? What is this world coming to?

Bikes don't have backseats.

You want a economical car? Go air...

Air Car - First Air-Powered Car - Zero Emissions - Behind the Tech - Popular Mechanics

$2 to fill up with a range of 125 miles and it goes 68 mph.

it's "unsafe" for it to be sold in the u.s., but I guess a bike or a scooter is alot safer.

Well if we didn't have cars, then i beleive that we would've invented something to take it place. Be it flying machines for personal use or even star trek--esque transporter technology. But I don't want to think about not having a car. even a crappy one is better than none... Right now i have one that is busticated (one in the sig) need the cams welded. sitting sucks.

Give me Flowers and Polar Bears over cars anyday.

Quote: Originally Posted by Spectrum Bikes don't have backseats.

Ahh, yes... but that kind of cash outlay would probably get a really sweet hotel for multiple nights.

Quote: Originally Posted by Darksamurai I don't know... I've been thinking about moving to a "green" city when they've halted urban sprawl by making everything fairly centralized. Basically, a good bicycle costs a helluva lot less than a car...

True but I spent about 3 grand on a Bicycle........and spent about 2 grand on an old Honda Civic I have........

Quote: Originally Posted by HemiCuda1970 True but I spent about 3 grand on a Bicycle........and spent about 2 grand on an old Honda Civic I have........

Ahh, but the bicycle doesn't require insurance, gas, and most folks don't spend that much on a bike... hell, my next bike will be roughly 200 to 300 bucks... I don't need anything too terribly fancy out of a bike.