carbongraphite

i need some information about how i could sculpt the front door on my case. basicly i want to have a layer of sculptable material on the front of the door. how would i go about this? i was thinking of bonding foam to the surface (anodized aluminum) then sculpting it then covering the foam with fiberglass or something else so that it is a durable surface. how would i go about such an idea?
how do i bond the foam to the aluminum? do i have to strip the anno off for the adhesive to work?
what kind of foam and resin do i use? (i want it to be rigid)
where can i buy the correct foam?
will body filler (evercoat everglass lite) melt the foam?
can i coat the foam with a resin or something instead of fiberglassing it over?
i'd appeciate any info so i can get it at least paint ready by x-mas
basicly i want to have solmething like dragon scales or a rough organic form on the door.

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grue

Quote: Originally Posted by carbongraphite ...can i coat the foam with a resin or something instead of fiberglassing it over? i'd appeciate any info so i can get it at least paint ready by x-mas basicly i want to have solmething like dragon scales or a rough organic form on the door.

I'm trying to find the link now, but there is a paint-on coating that they use over carved spray foam in zoos to make artificial rock walls for animal habitats. The end result is a coating that is cleanable, hard, and waterproof (so the animals can't destroy it and it's easy to clean the enclosures). I found this stuff once in a search, but can't locate it now...I'll keep looking...

Edit...Couldn't find a place to buy it, but look for Roscoe Foamcoat....that should do the trick.

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prime-evil

[QUOTE=carbongraphite]i need some information about how i could sculpt the front door on my case. basicly i want to have a layer of sculptable material on the front of the door. how would i go about this? i was thinking of bonding foam to the surface (anodized aluminum) then sculpting it then covering the foam with fiberglass or something else so that it is a durable surface. how would i go about such an idea?
how do i bond the foam to the aluminum? do i have to strip the anno off for the adhesive to work?
what kind of foam and resin do i use? (i want it to be rigid)
where can i buy the correct foam?
will body filler (evercoat everglass lite) melt the foam?
can i coat the foam with a resin or something instead of fiberglassing it over?
i'd appeciate any info so i can get it at least paint ready by x-mas
basicly i want to have solmething like dragon scales or a rough organic form on the door.[/quote]

Composite structures that have foam cores are one of my specialties.
A lot of what you are asking depends on the complexity of the shape you want to sculpt and more importantly the intricacies of the detail.

I suppose what you are proposeing to do is bond a piece of foam to your door, sculpting it and then glassing it over to give it a hard shell. This is possible, but when you glass over the foam, sharp detailing like striations in a dragon scale may be lost. If you mke the shell thin enough as to not lose the fine details it may not be durable enough to hold up to an accidental impact.

Composite foam structures are usually made with speciallized foam injection machines into a mold and then those details are post bonded into the outer and inner skins, (fiberglass, graphite, aluminum, whatever). This applies to a lot of aircraft parts .

Another method, is co-bonding the foam center (also precast) into a wet layup. Some surfboards are made this way.

For a "one-off" or prototype, you can use Great Stuff, a home insulating product. It's expandable foam in a can. It's sold at Home Depot, Lowes.... Then you can shell it over (Bondo won't melt it, BTW); you can use an epoxy resin purchased at a marine products or auto body supply house will have a suitable product.

But as I mentioned your problem with this method is preserving the detail.

So let me suggest:

Go to the crafts store and purchase a sculpting clay that will harden with a low heat in a household oven.

Create you scuplture just as you want to see it on the case door, confining the outer edges of the scupture to the height and width of the door.

Cure the clay. Then purchase some plastic casting compound. A really good store should carry it or
www.smooth-on.com
www.*ickblick.com (the first * is really a "d".. it keeps getting edited out automatically!)

Box in your hardened clay mockup. Then you will pour a plastic negative cast of the object. Use as instructed (mold release etc).

Once the negative cast is cured you can lift it off, and repeat by puring a positive cast. You will now have a nice plastic duplicate of your clay sculpture that you can just attach to the case door. You can final detail it as desired and paint it. It should be lightweight and fairly impact resistant.

I am simplifiying here to keep brief. Feel free to repost with questions or PM me.
It's nice to see someone pushing the creative envelope.
Have fun!

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carbongraphite

i was thinking of getting the general shape in foam since i want some gaps for the air intake and then glassing or coating. then i would dremel in the rough textures into the fiberglass or layer of body filler. i was thinking of going to the boat store today and picking up some two part foam mix.
it doesnt have to be perfect looking because what it's supposed to look like so i figured i could pull the foam off once it has cured then bond it back to the door with epoxy. id like to stay away from casting either way.
bvtw, how long does the resin smell stay?

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prime-evil

Quote: Originally Posted by carbongraphite i was thinking of getting the general shape in foam since i want some gaps for the air intake and then glassing or coating. then i would dremel in the rough textures into the fiberglass or layer of body filler. i was thinking of going to the boat store today and picking up some two part foam mix. it doesnt have to be perfect looking because what it's supposed to look like so i figured i could pull the foam off once it has cured then bond it back to the door with epoxy. id like to stay away from casting either way. bvtw, how long does the resin smell stay?

The resin smell can be nasty, depends on how much you're doing...be well ventilated.
I've used the two part foam mix and in a pinch, or smaller items the Great Stuff. It's basically the same formula.
If fine detail is not a problem, foam away, and then you can glass over when it's cured. The fiberglass will protect the foam from impact. The marine supply shop should be able to hook you up with some epoxy resins and some fine weave fiberglass.. Bondo any imperfections out.

If you are going that route, wrap some of the fiberglass "cover plys" around the back of the foam. The fiberglass will bond very well to the aluminum with Bondo....better than the foam will. The Bondo won't melt the foam, but the foam is not structural enough as a foundation for bonding to the aluminum.

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BigAkita

Prime-Evil, dude, if you could put some of that into a guide you would be a hero.

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prime-evil

Quote: Originally Posted by BigAkita Prime-Evil, dude, if you could put some of that into a guide you would be a hero.

Thanks for asking! I've honestly been planning to. It would be a way of giving back for all the real computer stuff I've learned here (solving software problems,etc).
I've been doing 55-60 hours here at the shop. Soon as I can get to it I promise I will. Some of it will come in the way of a project-log. Lots of fun "made from scratch". I'm hoping in the next 60 days or so.
Meanwhile I'm more than happy to answer questions as they come. Pm me or as I'l respond as I see them pop up in a thread.

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Twizted

ok... I'm Lazy and didn't read the whole thread.... but..... one way you could do it... and not loose the detail..... Cut your details a ill deeper to compensate, Glass over it real thin..... pull the unit off the door and relieve it of the foam....... Then glass it from behind nice and thick with Fiberglass fabric for stability.... the only thing with this way is you need to mold into the back some brackets to be able to mount it back to the door.... if its to be smooth against the door you can use either Plastic or Fiberglass body filler at this point to smooth out the mating joint.... it would be lighter without the extra foam (all be it probably a negligible difference) and it would be super strong compared while maintaining your outside detail....

Just my .02¢

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prime-evil

Quote: Originally Posted by Twizted ok... I'm Lazy and didn't read the whole thread.... but..... one way you could do it... and not loose the detail..... Cut your details a ill deeper to compensate, Glass over it real thin..... pull the unit off the door and relieve it of the foam....... Then glass it from behind nice and thick with Fiberglass fabric for stability.... the only thing with this way is you need to mold into the back some brackets to be able to mount it back to the door.... if its to be smooth against the door you can use either Plastic or Fiberglass body filler at this point to smooth out the mating joint.... it would be lighter without the extra foam (all be it probably a negligible difference) and it would be super strong compared while maintaining your outside detail.... Just my .02¢

I hear ya... Carbon Graphite seemd eager to use foam, hence the direction of the thread. But, you're on the right track. However, if you were open to doing two lay-ups, this could be done a better way. But at a trade off of more work, skill and cost in material.

Make a mockup. Clay, Bondo, wood, foam, Chinese noodels, anything that replicates your final shape on the finished surface. With the benefits of the following procedure you can make the shape as intricate as you want without losing detail, but unless you want to get into rubber molding, the shape will need to have enough "draft" so that it doesn't lock into your cured lay-ups.

(a) Apply mold release.
(b) Gel coat. ( This is a thicker epoxy paste that keeps you from seeing cloth when you do the lay-up. The gel coat is what you see when you look at a fiberglass bathtub or the hull of a boat)
(c) A wet epoxy / fiberglass layup of about 3 plies. 45 degree - 90 degree - 45 degree weave orientation
(d) Let cure.
(e) Remove from mockup. Now you have a female mold.
(f) Apply mold release to female mold.
(g) Gel coat again
(h) Wet layup again. Similar to female mold. About five plies. 45-0-45-45-0-45
(i) Let cure

Now you have a skin with your shape. No foam, no nonsense. Bond to existing door as required. Shape should be stable enough so that no foam and extra material is needed. There may be a cavity between the new skin and the existing door, which should not need to be filled, but can be used to run wires you may need for LEDs or switching.
It takes some practice, ( I've had plenty) but this is the good way to do it, unless you have access to autoclaves, specialized materials and CNC equipment. (Then there's a whole other way!!)

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musclecars&computers

Quote: Originally Posted by carbongraphite i need some information about how i could sculpt the front door on my case. basicly i want to have a layer of sculptable material on the front of the door. how would i go about this? i was thinking of bonding foam to the surface (anodized aluminum) then sculpting it then covering the foam with fiberglass or something else so that it is a durable surface. how would i go about such an idea? how do i bond the foam to the aluminum? do i have to strip the anno off for the adhesive to work? what kind of foam and resin do i use? (i want it to be rigid) where can i buy the correct foam? will body filler (evercoat everglass lite) melt the foam? can i coat the foam with a resin or something instead of fiberglassing it over? i'd appeciate any info so i can get it at least paint ready by x-mas basicly i want to have solmething like dragon scales or a rough organic form on the door.

get a lot of penny's lay them out on a surface the same shape of the front of ur case, overlaping in a form to look like dragon scales, then u can apply a layer of material, bondo, foam, clearcoat, etc. whatever u want. Then remove the penny's for the scale look then paint and etc.

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carbongraphite

i picked up some two part foam and finishing resin from two hobby shops since the hardwear and boat store didnt have any. the thing is i dont have my LCD module with me (its back at my dorm) so its going to make figuring out a window for it a little more tricky since ill have to go with measurements but i should be able to atleast pour the foam today and mess around with a sample of it after it cures. i might have some pics later today.
thanks prime-evil!

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The Dragon Reborn

Quote: Prime-Evil, dude, if you could put some of that into a guide you would be a hero.

You would indeed be a hero, Prime-Evil! I've been thinking of this but I didn't dare trying because
I have no expierience whatsoever with this.... a guide would be awesome!

TDR

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prime-evil

Quote: Originally Posted by carbongraphite i picked up some two part foam and finishing resin from two hobby shops since the hardwear and boat store didnt have any. the thing is i dont have my LCD module with me (its back at my dorm) so its going to make figuring out a window for it a little more tricky since ill have to go with measurements but i should be able to atleast pour the foam today and mess around with a sample of it after it cures. i might have some pics later today. thanks prime-evil!

Awesome!
Have fun... and be patient. The first time at anything can get buggy. (Like me setting up RAID drivers for the first time.)
Post pictures and keep us informed.

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carbongraphite

i cut the front panel for the LCD and drilled it for the air intakes. neatness and being square doesnt matter since its all going to be covered. i then masked it and built dams for the foam then poured the foam. i probably should have experimented with a little foam before pouring since i didnt know how it would behave. ill have to pour a little more today to get an even surface to sculpt. it seems to bond well to the aluminum as well as anything else it touches and its quite light weight.

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beachbum86

wow, that tsunami dream is tow-up from the flow-up.

looks awesome.

i had a quick idea just to post here for the dragon scales look , if your a good welder and your beeds look good than you could just lay a whole crap load of rows of "nickles" in the direction of the dragon or how the dragon is contorting, then take a die grinder of your choice with like a 4" sanding disk and grind the tops of the "nickels" to create a shimmering effect of a fish/dragon scale. then after that take a wire wheel and get into all the nooks a crannies to clean it, after that get some forest green candy coat and spray it (after proper prep ofcorse)...the end result would look and feel like a large beasts scales.

it would be kinda heavy but the end look would be sweet.

if you are just gunna lay the glass over the foam then i would suggest making a vacume so you can make sure that the glass cloth sucks in to every detail.

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