Are Naked PCs Indecent?


Here is an article I found. I read a article a while back it was really short , But this put things in perpective.

So Basically If you own a computer realated buiness that used only linux bases OS'S you can not do that???

What about If you do like no profit work, People Buy the parts at cost from you you build and install linux is that fall under the naked pc's???

Just a few qestions I had on my mind on this subject.

WOW!!!

I did not know this ws such a big deal until I read this article , And looked for articles about the same subject.

Thanks for your time.

-CUBAN


Here is a article you can read if you don't know what this is about?

If you know about it I like to know what your thought and oppinions are on the subject?

There's been a lot of flack handed out about Microsoft's policy of urging hardware vendors not to sell PCs with no OS installed. I think every ounce of it is deserved. There are a lot of reasons to buy a 'clean' computer.
I build my own, but if I were going to buy one I most certainly wouldn't pick a branded machine from a company with "strategic partnerships". My first store-bought computer had lots of nifty extras that they were sure I'd be interested in. Feature-limited shareware, a handful of ISPs ready to sign me up, that lovely partition you shouldn't mess with, and the inevitable "helpful" apps that run in the background and make sure everything is going as planned.
Not my cup of tea, and thankfully it was my last branded PC. I don't always build them cheaper, but pound for pound mine are better. I appreciate small businesses that build machines for people who don't want to risk it themselves, and I hate, literally hate the idea that they could be considered suspect or bullied. Now with the "Feet on the Street" program, 'suspect' dealers can expect to get a visit from 'investigators'.
I use Microsoft's operating systems, begrudgingly, and I find them to be better than anything else I can get. I prefer a boxed copy to pre-loaded, and being an fan of naked PCs I think actions like this program solidify Microsoft's reputation as a monopolistic bully. Obviously someone wanting to use open source operating systems isn't going to want to pay the extra for the license on the pre-loaded OS, and if they bite, MS makes their money regardless of what they end up using. A Microsoft spokesperson described their feelings:

"We want to urge all system builders — indeed, all Partners — not to supply naked PCs. It is a risk to your customers and a risk to your business — with specifically 5 percent fewer opportunities to market software and services,"

It's sad, and I think it will come back to bite them. The whole fad of the software-cartel-as-law-enforcement stuff needs to stop. I'm a pretty morally bankrupt person, and I tend to fudge on my principles at every given chance, but even I am feeling worse every time I know my cash is headed to Redmond. Eventually if it continues I'll be moved enough to use another product. Others will just stop paying, making their current efforts self-defeating.

FROM HERE


Here are a few links.

Microsoft lashing out at "naked PCs" (Microsoft is urging PC vendors in the UK to stop shipping machines without operating systems.)

Microsoft: Don't sell PCs without operating systems
Naked PCs: Free software supporters are angry that Microsoft is putting pressure on PC vendors not to sell machines without an operating system installed
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All Naked PCs customers are software pirates.
Microsoft wants all partner OEM vendors to always ship PCs with Windows OS factory-installed. Microsoft's primary concern is that Naked PCs (sold without an Operating System) will be used to install pirated versions of Microsoft products.

Microsoft clearly doesn't want computer users buy a clean base PC and install a rival OS that is cheaper than Windows or even free like FreeDOS or Linux distros.

Naked PCs are chiefly purchased by users with some degree of expertise with computer equipment who may want to install a version of Linux or transfer an existing Windows OS license from an old computer to their new PC. Both Red Hat and Novell argue that naked PCs can be an important part of the overall market.

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Linux, the pirate's friend, says Gartner

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This was a quote I found in user comment :

"It's sad, and I think it will come back to bite them. The whole fad of the software-cartel-as-law-enforcement stuff needs to stop. I'm a pretty morally bankrupt person, and I tend to fudge on my principles at every given chance, but even I am feeling worse every time I know my cash is headed to Redmond. Eventually if it continues I'll be moved enough to use another product. Others will just stop paying, making their current efforts self-defeating."

Naked PC's are fine on a nude beach, but I wouldn't want to see one while I was eating. Well, unless of course it looked like Jessica Simpson....



But seriously. Microsoft has been using tactics like this since day one, literally. Back in the day of Win 3.1 you couldn't buy a PC from Dell or Gateway or anyone else without Windows. If you wanted OS/2 they would sell it to you, but you would still be paying for Windows. And to make matters worse, that pre-installed OS is only valid when used on the hardware it is sold with. So if you trash that machine and build a new one, you can not use that OS license anymore, even though you still "own" the license.

I too use MS operating systems because there is nothing better that does everything I want. Sure Linux is great, and I use it for certain things, but let's face it. If you use your PC for gaming, productivity, internet, banking, shopping, etc.. .Windows is pretty much the only game in town. Mac OS X is good too, but only runs on Apple hardware. Linux can do most of those things well, but not the games. Luckily I have a friend who use to work for MS and he can get software from the employee store at a very attractive price, which is why all my XP copies are legit.

But the bottom line is that MS, while not a monopoly, has monopolistic powers, and nobody here in the US has the balls to do anything about it.

Quote: Originally Posted by DickNervous But the bottom line is that MS, while not a monopoly, has monopolistic powers, and nobody here in the US has the balls to do anything about it.

The hardware venders could just say No.

I build systems/servers for a living and I install whatever the customer wants. If they want M$ then I install the 30 day free trial and they can activate it , same with any software, or i'll install any free OS they want also.

As for it being a risk to my customer, the only risk is that the person buying doesnt know how to install an OS.

I dont care what M$ says , I will never push thier OS on any of my customers, and I dont care if M$ likes it or not.

Quote: Originally Posted by Nerdz The hardware venders could just say No.

If it were only that simple.....

Think that through for a moment. Pretend that you are Dell. 99% of your customers want Windows. If you sign the contract with MS you get each limited license (ie: only run on that hardware) for something like $10-20 each. If you don't, you have to pay $80-100 each. That would increase the price of your machines by at least $70 vs the competition who did sign the contract.

Do you say No and hope that all your customers understand why you are charging them an extra $70+ compared to Gateway, HP, ABS, etc. Or do you say yes and stay price competitive. Remember, for someone looking to by a sub-$1000 PC, $70 can make or break a deal.

So, can you still say No that easily?

I support microsoft all the way, NOT!

Screw that, PC vendors should be free to install what the hell they want, I would prefer to got to a shop and buy a PC with nothin installe don it, that way i get to have the OS i want and none of the extra crap.

Quote: Originally Posted by DickNervous I too use MS operating systems because there is nothing better that does everything I want. Sure Linux is great, and I use it for certain things, but let's face it. If you use your PC for gaming, productivity, internet, banking, shopping, etc.. .Windows is pretty much the only game in town. Mac OS X is good too, but only runs on Apple hardware. Linux can do most of those things well, but not the games. Luckily I have a friend who use to work for MS and he can get software from the employee store at a very attractive price, which is why all my XP copies are legit.

Well, I quit using Windows on my desktop last year. Linux does games quite well, it just depends on *which* games you want. It also just so happens that most of the games I like run in Linux, and the ones that don't, I'll live without for the opportunity to not have viruses and spyware. It meets all my needs, and 90% of my wants... thus I ditched Windows. This is obviously not the road for everyone, but it's one I chose for practical and obvious reasons. I can honestly say I know more about my computer now than I ever did with Windows, and I'm guilt (and virus) free.

On topic, I totally believe Microsoft would strongarm vendors, and in any way they thought they could get away with. I refuse to pay money for their products because I despise their business model and lisencing policy. The actual software isn't evil, but the newer versions are getting close. Why the heck do they require the damn CD to uninstall Office? I stinking *HATE* that. Not to mention if you run a corporate CD install repository, you have to have 10 different versions... Office 2K Pro, Premium, SBE, etc. etc. etc.

I wish I could think of an analogy to compare this to. Microsoft should not have the right to tell companies what they can and can't do, especially if it only benefits Microsoft. It's a free market. Their definition of "free" is "Anything you want, as long as it's Microsoft."

Sorry. I'll shut up now.

Quote: Originally Posted by Reza I support microsoft all the way, NOT! Screw that, PC vendors should be free to install what the hell they want, I would prefer to got to a shop and buy a PC with nothin installe don it, that way i get to have the OS i want and none of the extra crap.

They are free to do that as long as they don't have a contract with MS. Though it will cost them more to put Windows on then someone else. Many of the local "white box" PC makers don't have a deal with MS. It is the big vendors that sell thousands of units a month and up that do.

Quote: Originally Posted by DickNervous They are free to do that as long as they don't have a contract with MS. Though it will cost them more to put Windows on then someone else. Many of the local "white box" PC makers don't have a deal with MS. It is the big vendors that sell thousands of units a month and up that do.

Your absolutly right, as I myself am a "white box " vender. My cost even at wholesale is alot more than what the big boys pay , and I see it all the time when i get asked to match a compitors quote on a system. I can beat the price on the system no problem but , when I add the software they request, it bumps the price quite a bit , and I can show where the big Co. pays less for the software but I charge less for the same or better parts.

So when your the dig Co. it does pay to buy BULK software and sign contracts with M$.

As for running a free OS , you then run into the problem of support and or compatibility , which is where , I hate to say it , paying for M$ software is gonna make people buy it, SUPPORT , Linux is great but its still free so doesnt have the same suppport team as M$ ( other then enterprize and one or two others) so when you need the support ( i.e business's) unfortunatly M$ is the top dog IMO

Quote: Originally Posted by HigHTecHReDNecK Your absolutly right, as I myself am a "white box " vender. My cost even at wholesale is alot more than what the big boys pay , and I see it all the time when i get asked to match a compitors quote on a system. I can beat the price on the system no problem but , when I add the software they request, it bumps the price quite a bit , and I can show where the big Co. pays less for the software but I charge less for the same or better parts. So when your the dig Co. it does pay to buy BULK software and sign contracts with M$. As for running a free OS , you then run into the problem of support and or compatibility , which is where , I hate to say it , paying for M$ software is gonna make people buy it, SUPPORT , Linux is great but its still free so doesnt have the same suppport team as M$ ( other then enterprize and one or two others) so when you need the support ( i.e business's) unfortunatly M$ is the top dog IMO

But there are a LOT of people who, when the sitch is fully explained, would rather support the lil guy who's going to have GREAT service vs the big guy who's gonna ship your calls overseas, lose your e-mails and generaly have pretty bad service.

Quote: Originally Posted by DickNervous Naked PC's are fine on a nude beach, but I wouldn't want to see one while I was eating. Well, unless of course it looked like Jessica Simpson.... But seriously. Microsoft has been using tactics like this since day one, literally. Back in the day of Win 3.1 you couldn't buy a PC from Dell or Gateway or anyone else without Windows. If you wanted OS/2 they would sell it to you, but you would still be paying for Windows. And to make matters worse, that pre-installed OS is only valid when used on the hardware it is sold with. So if you trash that machine and build a new one, you can not use that OS license anymore, even though you still "own" the license. I too use MS operating systems because there is nothing better that does everything I want. Sure Linux is great, and I use it for certain things, but let's face it. If you use your PC for gaming, productivity, internet, banking, shopping, etc.. .Windows is pretty much the only game in town. Mac OS X is good too, but only runs on Apple hardware. Linux can do most of those things well, but not the games. Luckily I have a friend who use to work for MS and he can get software from the employee store at a very attractive price, which is why all my XP copies are legit. But the bottom line is that MS, while not a monopoly, has monopolistic powers, and nobody here in the US has the balls to do anything about it.

Vary well said.......Makes you wish games could run on Mac...Just to get away from Microsoft......

Quote: Originally Posted by drougnor But there are a LOT of people who, when the sitch is fully explained, would rather support the lil guy who's going to have GREAT service vs the big guy who's gonna ship your calls overseas, lose your e-mails and generaly have pretty bad service.

110% true. But you need to get the chance to explain the stich fully. And that is the problem when dealing with consumers. And what HTRN said about support is also true.

Small businesses will go with local resellers for the simple fact that there is a face and place on the other end of the deal that they can beat the crap out of when things do not work. Really small shops will go, like the consumers, to the established big boys. Mid size is where the real deal is. These are the guys that want the high level of service from the local shops, but the Dell prices. The good news is that if you can get in there with the hardware, services should help you make up the loss you will take on the software, because these are the companies the need the most help. They normally do not have any IT staff, or at least no dedicated IT staff, and they need a local reseller to do everything for them.

These are also the shops you can get onto a Linux distro like Red Hat or Suse. You can get a reseller support agreement that you can use to support your cusotmers and pass on only a fraction of the cost to each of them. The trick is getting them to trust you enough to take the plunge.

Granted its evil, microsoft is like every other big company out there, i've been in the archery buisness since 12 working with my dads company going to bow companies doing presentations. It sucks we are a small company and it blows when a a company litterally tells you do this or we will try our best to sink your product. Micrsoft isn't a monopoly there are alternatives the problem is Billy owns M$ and Apple so hes in a win win situation when it comes to people buying apple or M$ think of the bigger picture it doesn't matter. Its a monopoly what gates has.

The sad thing is this, companies can dictate to other companies what to do because if they refuse lets say Vista comes out with some drivers that are specifically buggy when installed on Dells, dell no longer has buisness as most of their sells goto larger buisnesses and those buisnesses demand Windows. The thing is there is no way to say microsoft did it intentionally if they do it correctly.

I was told once when i was with my dad that they liked our product, but they wanted it changed this way and that and if we didnt they would change thier Riser on the bow just slightly ever so slightly so that our product was incompatible. They were the top bow company out, so that would eliminate way to many customers. Think about it.

this has been posted before...

http://forums.pcapex.com/anything_go...d_windows.html

Quote: Originally Posted by THRiLL KiLL this has been posted before... http://forums.pcapex.com/anything_go...d_windows.html

So THRiLL KiLL, do you have like some kind of internal database that keeps track of all the threads so you always know when something has been posted already, including which hot babes and in the babe thread, or is it just luck that you recall these things?

Quote: Originally Posted by DickNervous So THRiLL KiLL, do you have like some kind of internal database that keeps track of all the threads so you always know when something has been posted already, including which hot babes and in the babe thread, or is it just luck that you recall these things?

nah... but i have been flamed many times in the past for not using the search fuctiion

Quote: Originally Posted by THRiLL KiLL this has been posted before... http://forums.pcapex.com/anything_go...d_windows.html

Well i did a search for it nothing came up.

I was looking for : Are Naked PCs Indecent?

And no search results.

Also added a Poll to see what people thought.

Quote: Originally Posted by THRiLL KiLL nah... but i have been flamed many times in the past for not using the search fuctiion

So has Cuban.... looks like only one of you learned the lesson.
Very goood Grasshopper!