Just curious, what are your views on creation? I've been torn apart on this issue for quite a while. I've basicly come to the conclusion, atleast in my opinion, that god put on this earth as we are now, and I do believe in creation. I spent probably a year or two to understand my standing on religion and life and after considering atheistic views, I just thought even if aliens created humans, who created aliens? Maybe it was lightening or something, but who created that? I just thought eventually at one point, you just have to give up and say that there is something bigger that runs everything.

Don't get to riled out about this guys, no one should start calling anyone an asshat or anything, unless they insult the human race or something.

im going to place my testicals on a grill for even thinking about posting in this...

Dude, your testicles have already been grilled, diced and eated by dogs. Thus, you have 2 red rep bars.

Yes, I do. Genesis 1:1

And then when you get to the end of the line, you can just ask, "What created God?"....and you're back where you started.

On a side note, is it written somewhere that there has to be a mandatory religious/political thread once a week? The best part is the last sentence....you KNOW people will get riled up about it from past experience, which is why you wrote it. And you should also know that it has done **** in the past to deter arguments......so what have we learned?

Quote: Originally Posted by pimp_joose Yes, I do. Genesis 1:1

I was gonna say that....

Quote: Originally Posted by Spectrum Don't get to riled out about this guys, no one should start calling anyone an asshat or anything, unless they insult the human race or something.

Well then, I believe I am about to get called an asshat then. I have no high opinion of humanity. We somehow manage to screw up anything and everything we do.

I myself believe in creation. Same reason PJ mentioned. Really funny people can go on and on and on debating this, when the very first chapter of the Bible explains it.

Quote: Originally Posted by lAnonymousl And then when you get to the end of the line, you can just ask, "What created God?"....and you're back where you started. On a side note, is it written somewhere that there has to be a mandatory religious/political thread once a week? The best part is the last sentence....you KNOW people will get riled up about it from past experience, which is why you wrote it. And you should also know that it has done **** in the past to deter arguments......so what have we learned?

We have learned that people like to argue.

No one created God. He has always existed. Psalm 90:2: "from time indefinite to time indefinite you are God."

"We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape..." (15:26), the Quran.

Word... Genesis to me is one of the most amazing books in the bible. But yes, i believe in creation.

Quote: Originally Posted by Spectrum "We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape..." (15:26), the Quran.

So I guess you believe in creation too...
Who is the Qur'an referring to when it says 'We created...' who's the "we"?

"We" is Allah, aka God. Also, Anon, this was kept civil, minus your little escapade. This was meant to induce some healthy discussion, which it has so far done.

Yes, I do believe in creation. All other theories are the products of people thinking too hard.

I don't believe in creation. Why, you may ask? Well, I don't believe there's a God either.. I blame my parochial schooling for that. All I learned from them to hate God, and eventually ended up wondering if there really was one, would asshats like these *really* be teaching in his name? No..

If you want my beliefs.. fine. I take parts from all religions... the morals and such... just no faith in an invisible man who's high and mighty minions made my life hell for six years of my childhood.

*shrug*

My -$0.02

P.S. ... missed coming to a point on the topic at hand: How do I think the world came about? Don't really care, I'm stuck here all the same anyway.

Sorry guys you can hate on me for this.....

I went to catholic school for 12 years but my dad is also a math teacher and there is something he asked me a long time ago that I think has a lot to do with this. He asked "Did we invent Math or did we discover it?" While we may have invented a way of articulating the concepts with numbers and symbols and such...those concepts were always there, we are discovering them as time goes on. This universe is ruled by math in everything we do...in fact my typing this is proof of that. Every little chip, transistor, resistor, capacitor in this machine is built around some sort of mathematical property. It was always there which is why I started to think about the true existence of god, heaven , hell that sorta thing. What if the universe just was...and we are just discovering/uncovering it? What if the bible was just stories to explain why the flowers bloom, why it rains or doesn't, why birds can fly and we can't? What if it is just the ultimate users manual on life telling us how to live? So here is where I am left. The bible or Torah or whatever is a collection of stories on how we should treat each other. Some people within these stories obviously did live and they left their mark in history with their good/bad deeds. Heaven and Hell are not places but a state of mind. If your grandmother dies and all you remember is the sweet old lady that treated you so well and you loved so much she will stay that way in your memories until you pass away (She's in Heaven) If however she used to beat you and place you in the closet with the cat littler box for hours on end then thats the memories you will carry around (She's in Hell).fficeffice" />



This obviously simplified as I could write on for a while about examples. So while I do believe others are trying to give us guidelines on how to live and treat each other, I am not entirely convinced of the existence of a single ruling/ overseeing deity or even multiple ones for that matter.

my badly worded $0.02

Quote: Originally Posted by pimp_joose Yes, I do. Genesis 1:1

Word.

And no matter what anyone says, or how many people change their minds, everyone'll keep fighting over it as there's no definitive way to prove what happened. You believe a theory, or a really old book, is how it boils down. And since I wasn't there to see it, nor since the other theories don't make sense to me, I go with the book (that and other reasons, but trying to keep this on topic I'll avoid tangenting)

And here's an idea, what is to say that a divine being didn't create the big bang, that being His vessel of creation?

Quote: Originally Posted by Cheshiredemon We somehow manage to screw up anything and everything we do.

I think we are predisposed to do wrong. Take for example a little 2 year old boy and a cookie jar. The little boy grabs a cookie and eats it all up and you walk in to see your boy covered in cookies and chocolate and you ask "did you eat a cookie". And with big beautiful sincere eyes he looks up at you and shakes his head "no".

Something else I saw on fathers day, there were these two little kids, one maybe 3 and the other 4 and their older relative was teaching them hot hands. And one of the kids whacked the mess out of the others hand. You should have seen the joy it brought to her eyes. She was laughing and having a good old time while the other was grabbing his little hand and leering at her.

We start out selfish, selfabsorbed, manipulative, dishonest & cruel. Then back that up with years and years of abuse and you get adults. I am greatful to now believe, not only in creation but in the fact that life can be more wonderful then I ever imagined (even in the middle of the storms of life) when I walk with my God. The closer I get to him the greater life has become. I am definately still a work in progress but life is good.

psycho



MY RELIGION DISCLOSURE:
****Don't start any mess. I am not trying to convert you. I am supposed to care if you believe in him but I am not that far yet. If you don't believe then "get on, have a nice life, best of luck" but don't crap on me for believing. I don't berate you for not believing so do me a favor and show equal respect****

Chunky

Your argument invalidates itself.

First, you cannot beget organization from chaos. Try NOT cleaning your room, and see if it'll ever get clean.

Second, humans did discover math, and how to manipulate it. The universe, right down to sub-atomic particles requires the constancy of math to operate properly. If that constancy wasn't there, then the universe would simply not exist; it would collapse upon itself. Who created the constancy? Who created the physical rules by which our universe governs itself?

Quote: Originally Posted by pimp_joose We have learned that people like to argue. No one created God. He has always existed. Psalm 90:2: "from time indefinite to time indefinite you are God."

Heh, yeah. That was my point....the same tired, old argument ensues. My point was to show him that trying to rationalize FAITH leads you down a dead-end street. It isn't meant to be rationalized...that's the point. Don't turn to "God" simply because you lack an expanation, though....do it because you genuinely believe in it. There are always questions, and if you ask one, you've opened Pandora's Box. I'm sick of seeing people trying to prove religion. It's not gonna happen. At the end of the day it all comes down to "Do you believe it or not?"....and no amount of proof or explanation will deter you either way. If there is a shred of doubt in your heart, it's already over....don't waste your time.

Personally, when it comes to religion, I'm a firm believer in Occam's Razor.

Quote: Originally Posted by lAnonymousl Heh, yeah. That was my point....the same tired, old argument ensues. My point was to show him that trying to rationalize FAITH leads you down a dead-end street. It isn't meant to be rationalized...that's the point. Don't turn to "God" simply because you lack an expanation, though....do it because you genuinely believe in it. There are always questions, and if you ask one, you've opened Pandora's Box. I'm sick of seeing people trying to prove religion. It's not gonna happen. At the end of the day it all comes down to "Do you believe it or not?"....and no amount of proof or explanation will deter you either way. If there is a shred of doubt in your heart, it's already over....don't waste your time. Personally, when it comes to religion, I'm a firm believer in Occam's Razor.

You're right. Eventually it comes down to will you believe.

Since you're a science kinda guy, put this in your pipe and smoke it:

The science of mathematical probability offers striking proof that the Genesis creation account must have come from a source with knowledge of the events. The account lists 10 major stages in this order: (1)*a beginning; (2)*a primitive earth in darkness and enshrouded in heavy gases and water; (3)*light; (4)*an expanse or atmosphere; (5)*large areas of dry land; (6)*land plants; (7)*sun, moon and stars discernible in the expanse, and seasons beginning; (8)*sea monsters and flying creatures; (9)*wild and tame beasts, mammals; (10)*man. Science agrees that these stages occurred in this general order. What are the chances that the writer of Genesis just guessed this order? The same as if you picked at random the numbers 1 to 10 from a box, and drew them in consecutive order. The chances of doing this on your first try are 1 in 3,628,800! So, to say the writer just happened to list the foregoing events in the right order without getting the facts from somewhere is not realistic.

I'm gonna have to look into this "Occam's Razor" thing.

...and who said I put "blind faith" into anything? ...heh...nobody...