Well, I thought that I would go ahead and start one. No sense asking that this doesn't dissolve into a huge flame war with each side using false propaganda against the other because it just won't happen.

Anyway, some of my pre-debate thoughts.

First, it does bother me that the moderator is currently writing a book about (not specifically) Sen. Obama but from what I understand, it highlights the age in which we live in where black politicians are more easily accepted by white America (meaning race is becoming less of an issue). I've seen Ms. Ifill on PBS before and she's pretty fair, but still, it bothers me that she's writing this book at this time.

Secondly, I don't believe for one second that the McCain camp did not know about this book. Gov. Palin is certainly an orator that can sway an audience, but folks that have debated her before (both Republican and Democratic) have said that she could spend two minutes telling you the sky is blue and leave the audience with an excited sense that she really knew what she was talking about. My prediction is that if the debate goes bad for Gov. Palin (and I'm predicting that it will) that the McCain camp and the far right will scream that the moderator was pro-Sen. Obama from the start and Gov. Palin never had a chance. So far, Gov. Palin hasn't said anything of substance yet other than to make promises without stating any plans or facts.

Sen. Biden is going to be between a rock and a hard place tonight and I think that's going to hurt him. He's the kind of guy that speaks before he thinks which is something of great concern to me when we're talking about the Executive Office here. That, and plus he doesn't know when to shut up. He's one of the few politicians that will dig himself into his own hole, then cover himself up with the dirt. Also, any refute or criticism of Gov. Palin is going to come off as him being sexist and condescending. It's the same kind of crap that Rep. Ferraro pulled when VP Bush corrected her on her geography. Taking offense to anything Sen. Biden says will be his biggest vuneralbility. Sen. Obama could have picked a better running mate.

Well, there's going to be a lot of crap said tomorrow on both sides, but I think that it's going to go one of two ways. Either Gov. Palin is going to dazzle the American people while continuing to say nothing of any value or Sen. Biden is going to open his big mouth and say something stupid, which is pretty common.

Rob

Quote: Originally Posted by Rob Well, I thought that I would go ahead and start one. No sense asking that this doesn't dissolve into a huge flame war with each side using false propaganda against the other because it just won't happen. Anyway, some of my pre-debate thoughts. First, it does bother me that the moderator is currently writing a book about (not specifically) Sen. Obama but from what I understand, it highlights the age in which we live in where black politicians are more easily accepted by white America (meaning race is becoming less of an issue). I've seen Ms. Ifill on PBS before and she's pretty fair, but still, it bothers me that she's writing this book at this time. Secondly, I don't believe for one second that the McCain camp did not know about this book. Gov. Palin is certainly an orator that can sway an audience, but folks that have debated her before (both Republican and Democratic) have said that she could spend two minutes telling you the sky is blue and leave the audience with an excited sense that she really knew what she was talking about. My prediction is that if the debate goes bad for Gov. Palin (and I'm predicting that it will) that the McCain camp and the far right will scream that the moderator was pro-Sen. Obama from the start and Gov. Palin never had a chance. So far, Gov. Palin hasn't said anything of substance yet other than to make promises without stating any plans or facts. Sen. Biden is going to be between a rock and a hard place tonight and I think that's going to hurt him. He's the kind of guy that speaks before he thinks which is something of great concern to me when we're talking about the Executive Office here. That, and plus he doesn't know when to shut up. He's one of the few politicians that will dig himself into his own hole, then cover himself up with the dirt. Also, any refute or criticism of Gov. Palin is going to come off as him being sexist and condescending. It's the same kind of crap that Rep. Ferraro pulled when VP Bush corrected her on her geography. Taking offense to anything Sen. Biden says will be his biggest vuneralbility. Sen. Obama could have picked a better running mate. Well, there's going to be a lot of crap said tomorrow on both sides, but I think that it's going to go one of two ways. Either Gov. Palin is going to dazzle the American people while continuing to say nothing of any value or Sen. Biden is going to open his big mouth and say something stupid, which is pretty common. Rob

Rob, do you listen to Bill Handel in the mornings? Sounds a pretty close to what he was saying on the radio.

I'm looking forward to actually seeing Caribou Barbie try to answer a question more difficult than: "What newspapers do you read?"

Seriously... she can't be THAT vapid.



Can she?

Quote: Originally Posted by Im_gumby I'm looking forward to actually seeing Caribou Barbie try to answer a question more difficult than: "What newspapers do you read?" Seriously... she can't be THAT vapid. Can she?

Considering she managed to screw even that up.....

Quote: Originally Posted by Rob First, it does bother me that the moderator is currently writing a book about (not specifically) Sen. Obama but........

Except for the fact that the book is titled, “The Breakthrough: Politics and Race in the Age of Obama” and that in interviews with her, she talks about being dazzled by his brilliant campaign.

Quote: Originally Posted by Rob Secondly, I don't believe for one second that the McCain camp did not know about this book.

I agree with that.

Quote: Originally Posted by Rob So far, Gov. Palin hasn't said anything of substance yet other than to make promises without stating any plans or facts.

Kinda like Obama, except for the fact that she actually has a list of real accomplishments in executive positions such as mayor and governor.

Quote: Originally Posted by Rob Sen. Biden is going to be between a rock and a hard place tonight and I think that's going to hurt him. He's the kind of guy that speaks before he thinks which is something of great concern to me when we're talking about the Executive Office here. That, and plus he doesn't know when to shut up. He's one of the few politicians that will dig himself into his own hole, then cover himself up with the dirt. Also, any refute or criticism of Gov. Palin is going to come off as him being sexist and condescending. It's the same kind of crap that Rep. Ferraro pulled when VP Bush corrected her on her geography. Taking offense to anything Sen. Biden says will be his biggest vulnerability. Sen. Obama could have picked a better running mate.

I agree, and as for a better VP choice, Hillary (even though I cant stand her) would have gotten him onto the White House, although that would have opened bigger problems for him down the road.

Quote: Originally Posted by Rob Either Gov. Palin is going to dazzle the American people while continuing to say nothing of any value or......

Again, like Obama, that strategy has done well for him so far.

And again, just like Sen. McCain.

Both Presidential candidates have on their respective websites plans on how they are going to implement various programs and how others are going to get addressed, so yes, Sen. Obama has said quite a few things of substance and so has Sen. McCain.

Oh, and could you find the quote about what she writes in her book about Sen. Obama? From the news I've read (even on FoxNews), she has said that she hasn't even written that chapter yet.

Rob

Quote: Originally Posted by Rob And again, just like Sen. McCain. Both Presidential candidates have on their respective websites plans on how they are going to implement various programs and how others are going to get addressed, so yes, Sen. Obama has said quite a few things of substance and so has Sen. McCain.

As I said above about Gov. Palin, Sen. McCain also has a list of accomplishments while in office (I don't like McCain for the most part), but please list me anything Obama has done.

Quote: Originally Posted by Rob Oh, and could you find the quote about what she writes in her book about Sen. Obama? From the news I've read (even on FoxNews), she has said that she hasn't even written that chapter yet.

I didn't say she writes about Obama in her book (because I haven't read it), I said his name is in the title. I will however, get quotes from her interviews when I have some time. Don't twist my words.

Estwing! Dude, Obama was a community organizer. He might have even had a hand in organizing your community.



I think you and I are in the same boat here Estwing. McCain/Palin is not my ideal ticket, but Obama/anybody is much worse. What has Obama done, and what exactly is this change that he speaks of?

That was so much more enjoyable to watch than the Presidential debates.

Sarah didn't make an ass out of herself as much as, say, the Couric interview, but Joe was bulletproof. Almost everything Palin threw at him was scraped off with cold fact, often making McCain look a little worse. I didn't know much about him before, but I'm really impressed. He presented himself as somebody that stands passionately for what Joe Biden believes (he liked the third person) regardless of whether his decision is popular, even if NOBODY found it popular and I have plenty of respect for that. He did have a tendency to repeat himself, which did make sense sometimes considering that Palin repeated her attacks, but sometimes it was a little excessive.

And Joe, don't try the home-town thing. That's Sarah's shtick and what I like about you is that you actually answered questions with policy instead of telling us to ask our soccer moms whether they're scared. When he was talking about raising kids as a single dad I thought "awwww this is sad but where the hell is it coming from and why are you doing this?"

SHOUT OUT TO THE THIRD GRADE CLASS!!!!!

seriously, I'm looking forward to 23/6 making one of these things for this
YouTube - 236.com: RNC in a minute
YouTube - 236.com: DNC in a Minute

Quote: Originally Posted by Im_gumby I'm looking forward to actually seeing Caribou Barbie try to answer a question more difficult than: "What newspapers do you read?" Seriously... she can't be THAT vapid. Can she?

Evidently she can. pwnt. But she's a maverick dammit. That's maverick. A maverick.




Maverick. James Garner, Jack Kelly, Roger Moore, Mel Gibson and Sarah "Maverick" Palin. Got it?

That's got to be the most lopsided debate I've ever seen. I did miss the Kennedy-Nixon debate though, I was busy learning to walk at the time. I thought Palin would never stop smiling, she never did stop staring directly into the camera, it was a little unnerving.

But she did better than I would have thought, she managed to repeat McCain doctrine verbatim instead of just spewing America good, rest of world bad rhetoric. But even with all the coaching she no doubt had, she couldn't manage to stay on topic for more than 30 seconds at a time. The shear volume of innaccurate information was impressive though.

I'm not fond of either candidate, but the thought that Carabou Barbie could be one myocardial infarction away from the presidency is a little bit terrifying.

I just got home from a night out with the Lodge brothers and had recorded the VP debate. It ended before any of the slanted political commentary started so I'm going to provide my views without outside influence.

I thought that Sen. Biden was much more reserved than he usually is and actually thought about what he said before he said it. He was clear and concise, plus providing facts to back up most of his statements. I also like how he didn't come back and directly attack Gov. Palin. Not only was it class, but more of a strategy not to provide ammunition for tomorrow's pundits. Yeah, I didn't like the whole down-home thing that he tried to do. Even if it is true, it didn't come across as sincere.

Gov. Palin took a while to get up to speed and even then, faltered on a few opportunities to speak. I really don't like how she kept referring to how the McCain/Palin ticket is a ticket of change, of making the government work for the people of America, etc., etc. I also didn't like how she tried to sound like she was "average Joe Six-Pack" talking in the small town diners about how our government is ruining our lives. Finally...I really didn't like the flirting she did, winking at the camera. That, to me, is very disarming and makes me even more wary of her. Perhaps the scariest thing she said was her response to the Office of the Vice Presidency and the "flexibility" that needs to be there. We've seen what flexibility has gotten us with our current Vice President.

The moderator? She did her job and she did it well. I would be very surprised if someone were to seriously believe that she slanted it one way or the other.

While no clear winner, I would say that Sen. Biden got the edge on this one. While he kept hitting Sen. McCain, Gov. Palin could only talk about the dream of changing Washington....oh, how could I forget, "THE GREED AND CORRUPTION ON WALL STREET". One point, she said that the problems of Main Street caused the problems on Wall Street. Yes, she did. I actually paused it, rewound it, and played it again. Probably a gaffe, but she said it nonetheless.

Eswingman, how am I twisting your words? You said that in interviews, "she talks about being dazzled by his brilliant campaign." I said that the only thing that I've read is that she hasn't even written that chapter yet. I wasn't asking you what she's written in the book (because it hasn't been written yet) but what she says that she's going to write about in the book.

Some of the things that Sen. Obama has done...

- Instrumental in getting the death sentence law in Illinois revised, such as requiring capital cases where the police interrogations are recorded.
- Expanded health care in Illinois to add about 154,000 people
- Sponsored the Lobbying and Ethics Reform Act
- Partnered with Sen. Lugar in getting the Cooperative Proliferation Detection, and Interdiction Assistance and Conventional Threat Reduction Act which "calls upon the State Department to implement a global effort to seek out and destroy surplus and unguarded stocks of conventional armaments and to cooperate with allies and international organizations when possible" (attributed to Sen. Lugar).

Wow. This is a surprise.

From the FoxNews website...61% said that Sen. Biden won the debate. Of course, that could change but here's a screenshot of it now.

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Thats the way it looks accross the pond too Rob.

I was surfing the BBC News site the other day and was warmed to read about some opinion polls that suggested the majority of people surveyed didn't take Palin seriously and thought she was too inexperienced to be an effective president should the need arise, but more importantly that one third of those people also said they wouldn't vote McCain because of it.

Biden made his fare share of mistakes last night too, check out some of the dodgy 'facts' that both parties were throwing around last night: BBC NEWS | World | Americas | Fact-checking the Biden-Palin debate

Poll tracker - BBC NEWS | Special Reports | 629 | 629 | US Election polltracker

Don't know if you've seen it or not, Dex, but there is a website that's tops in my book. It's called FactCheck.org. Check the link below for mistakes made by both VP candidates.

LINK

that foxnews poll was interesting. I was listening to some talk AM radio afterward and apparently their website was 70% for Palin. All the callers seemed to say "After her poor showing in the Couric interview and other places I think Sarah Palin really came out OK vs. the experienced Biden". So she won because she didn't suck and Biden was just Biden no matter how well he did.

Quote: Originally Posted by Rob Don't know if you've seen it or not, Dex, but there is a website that's tops in my book. It's called FactCheck.org. Check the link below for mistakes made by both VP candidates. LINK

That's even more than the factcheck report on the presidential debate if I remember correctly. Some of the confusion comes from piggy back bills and earmarks. It's damn hard to tell what a senator or congressman is voting for when you tack on all the extra's and then trade votes on something you're fairly neutral about for votes on something your passionate about.

Loath as I am to quote a CNN poll:
84% thought Palin exceeded expectations. I know I did, I thought she would tank like in the Couric interview.
46% thought Palin was qualified to be president. This is where McCain falls in most polls give or take a couple of points. One debate isn't going to change most opinions on the big picture.
26% thought Palin was more intelligent in the debate than Biden. That one says it all.

Palin got better late in the debate, but what really told the tale for me was Biden had an opinion and Palin was simply repeating McCain's platform verbatim even down to the McCain'isms. Like, "...and some of these countries are not our friends.", and "...maverick...". Biden showed support, but in a way that made you aware he didn't always agree with Obama and could think for himself.

Palin's refusal or inability to stick to the question at hand really hurt her. "I may not answer the question the way you want to hear, but I'll talk straight to the American people and let them know my track record," it's a debate, not a paid for announcement, I wanted the questions answered. I could give a rats ass about the things she did in Alaska that has no real corallary in federal government.

Yeah, she used a lot of her time to clear the air about herself and let everybody know how fitting she is. So how does Biden respond to that? We all know he's pretty qualified for whatever you want him to do and he's not exactly running for office as much as he is #1 Obama supporter

Cheers for the link Rob

I recorded the debate. Im going to use it as a drinking game. Every time Palin says nuclar you need to take a shot. Every time she dodges a question you take a shot.

I am going to be so drunk by the end of this debate Im gonna have to hold onto the grass to keep from falling off of the earth.

Here's a couple of pics for you guys... (not mine, just sharing)

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