Isn't this woman's 15 minutes up yet? She and these deserters need to have their citizenships revoked.

Funny thing about her is she abandoned her son, and left his father to raise him. Now she banks on his death whenever, and whereever she can. I would personally like to kick her in her tucus. She ranks right up there with the pieces of crap who protest at the military funerals.

Quote: Sheehan Supports U.S. Deserters in Canada A group of American military deserters publicly embraced their new lives in Canada on Saturday with the support of "peace mom" Cindy Sheehan, who said she wished the son she lost in Iraq was among them. "I begged him not to go to Iraq," the anti-war activist said through tears at a rally in support of the former soldiers, who wore black T- shirts emblazoned with "AWOL." "And I wish he was standing up here with these people because he didn't want to go." Sheehan was making her second visit to Canada in support of sanctuary for those fleeing the U.S. military. The Canadian government has so far denied political asylum to U.S. soldiers who have sought it but appeals are pending. "They're trying to deport me," said Darrell Anderson of Lexington, Ky., who arrived in Canada by way of Niagara Falls in January 2005. He spent seven months in Iraq with the Army's 1st Armored Division and received a purple heart following a roadside bomb attack before deciding during a leave he would not go back. "When I was in Iraq, we were killing innocent people for oil. It was obvious they didn't want us there," said Anderson, 24, who is petitioning to remain in Canada. The gathering at a park in the town of Fort Erie, across the border from Buffalo, N.Y., was organized by peace groups on both sides of the border. About 20 former U.S. soldiers, referred to as war resisters, have applied for refugee status in Canada. Organizers estimated there may be as many as 200 soldiers in the country who have not yet sought formal protection. "They say we're traitors, we're deserters," said former Marine Chris Magaoay, 20, of the Hawaiian island of Maui. "No, I'm a Marine and I stand up for what I believe in, and I believe the Constitution of the United States of America is being pushed aside as a scrap piece of paper." The soldiers thanked Canadians for their hospitality and were cheered by about 100 in an audience that included Iraq veterans opposed to the war and Vietnam-era resisters who sought refuge in Canada decades earlier. "I know that their choice has been difficult but I know that they made the right choice," said Bruce Beyer, who spent five years in Canada as a draft resister during Vietnam. "I know that they miss their family and their friends that they're cut off from," Beyer said. "But I know that you Canadians have stepped up and stood behind them and I thank you from the bottom of my heart." Sheehan, who energized the anti-war movement last summer with her monthlong protest outside President Bush's Texas ranch, said she has spent time with many of the resisters. "They're moral human beings who don't want to go to Iraq and kill innocent people to line the pockets of George Bush and the war machine," she said.

Link

What do you all think?

she's an idiot who has no cause for what she's doing. if her son believed he was doing the right thing to go in to Iraq and fight the fight, then she should support his decision. its not until after he's dead and he can't protest her actions that she's been doing this. where were all of her protests while her son was in Iraq fighting before he died?

Quote: About 20 former U.S. soldiers, referred to as war resisters

as for referring to these people as "former U.S. solders", they are still soldiers that are AWOL now. they are subject to the UCMJ and they should be held accountable to it. if they refused to go back, they could've refused the order and gone to court martial to uphold their beliefs. instead, they're being cowards and i suspect they don't want to go back because they are unwilling to face death in the face despite signing up for a job that death was part of the job description.

these people have no justification for applying for asylum in another country. asylum is granted for people fearing political retribution in their home country not for military criminals which these people are since they have broken military law.

Excellent post Enko, I could not agree with you more.

Might be slightly different if Canada didn't have troops over there also, then their government might be more willing to accomodate those seeking asylum.

However, the Canadian military have troops over in Iraq also, so they aren't too likely to be sympathetic to any of the deserters.

(steps up on soapbox)
It's suprising how many people sign up for the military because of benefit X, Y, and Z However, when you put your name on the line, you've sold your right to do what you want to do -- they own you until your time is up. Period. It isn't like the commercial sector where you can tell your boss to 'stick it' and move on.

In America, you have full and complete freedom -- to sign your rights away. Whether to the military, to a drug dealer, to a credit card company, or whomever. In Switzerland, every able bodied male is required by law to serve one stint in the military. In Australia it's against the law not to vote. I support the troops, I support the war, I said 2 years ago when this thing started that it wasn't going to be a traditional war, and that the American people would grow tired of it when the newness and the shinyness wore off. However, the biggest voice either pro or con to the war is not a forum, is not CNN/ABC/MSNBC/whatever, it has nothing to do with a camera at all. It is your name and check mark at the voting center. If you didn't vote, you got no say in what's going on, and frankly have no right to b*tch. But I guess that's just one more freedom we take for granted.
(leaves soapbox)

Quote: Originally Posted by Graaille It's suprising how many people sign up for the military because of benefit X, Y, and Z However, when you put your name on the line, you've sold your right to do what you want to do -- they own you until your time is up. Period. It isn't like the commercial sector where you can tell your boss to 'stick it' and move on.

This is so true Graaille! When my son went into the military at 17 he knew what he was getting into. This was the one mature thing he had done in his young life. He did so well, and loves it so much my nephew enlisted one year later.

Both have been to Iraq for their 12 months, and both have said "If my outfit had to go again, well that is the life I chose." Both also said when they returned that they saw more good than is ever told here in the news.

I wonder if Cindy Sheehan has ever bothered to sit down and listen to returning military personnel tell their side. How they feel about what she does and says. Being pprotested and not supported by your own fellow Americans is far, far worse than having the country or people's you fight for protest you.

with the news, they report only the bad because that's what sells. the US military is doing plenty of good over in Iraq but you never hear about it on any of the big broadcasting stations.

Quote: Originally Posted by Enko with the news, they report only the bad because that's what sells. the US military is doing plenty of good over in Iraq but you never hear about it on any of the big broadcasting stations.

Ive heard that too, I recently found out someone in my family is in Iraq (I dont know what relation he is to me, but Im his 1st cousin..which Im guessing is-well I dont know..) His parents told me the same thing. What I think we should all do is instead of protesting the war (not that theres anything wrong with protesting) is protesting the news. Protest that they only give lies, and planted news reports. They should report good news along with the bad, not just bad.

The only time you get good news is on a slow News Day...

Now for the article.- I actually have no other opinion, other than the fact that no matter what her son did, she should have supported him. As for the war (another topic) Im also sitting on the fence, I believe we (Everyone really..) are uniformed about the true cause for the war.

"Where are you going, soldier? You are leaving the combat area. Deserters will be shot!"

Quote from Battlefield 2. Now, I don't know about shooting deserters, but they don't deserve any help or sympathy. It's not like there's a draft in effect and people were forced into going into the military. If you sign up to be in the military, you're in it till your time is up, not before.

This woman is insane.

Since you people obviously have strong opinions on this woman, I wonder; who of you know her? Where do you have your information about her from? Is it from the news, that is just was stated can't be trusted? Doesn't she have every right to have her opinions and say them, like everyone else? I don't have to agree on them, just as I don't have to agree with the opinions vented in the posts here. And I for sure am not going to say anyone is insane or an idiot because they have a different opinion from me.
What reasons do you have to say some news are lies, while others are true? If you go outside USA, you might find that people there say the direct opposite of what you think. Does that mean they are wrong, because they disagree with you? It is so easy to trashtalk people on the internet, especially people you don't know at all, and I had hoped the forums here could have been free from this. I guess I was wrong.

Quote: Originally Posted by Sorrow And I for sure am not going to say anyone is insane or an idiot because they have a different opinion from me. What reasons do you have to say some news are lies, while others are true? If you go outside USA, you might find that people there say the direct opposite of what you think. Does that mean they are wrong, because they disagree with you? It is so easy to trashtalk people on the internet, especially people you don't know at all, and I had hoped the forums here could have been free from this. I guess I was wrong.

I wasn't aware that expressing your opinion was trashtalking. From the reports of what she is doing, my opinion has been formed about her, which I expressed above. How is that trashtalking? I guess we just have different opinions of what trashtalking is.

If anyone would like to take her side and debate the issue, I wouldn't stop them -- in fact, it might be a nice debate for all I know.

Discussing opinions is fine, but stating that someone you don't know at all is insane makes it a personal attack.

Let me try to address each question you have separately.

Quote: Originally Posted by Sorrow Since you people obviously have strong opinions on this woman, I wonder; who of you know her?

No, I do not know her personally, but have read extensive information on her since she thrust herself into the public eye.

Quote: Originally Posted by Sorrow Where do you have your information about her from? Is it from the news, that is just was stated can't be trusted?

The information I get about her is from news, newspapers and seeing her on TV, hearing her on radio, and simply by her actions.

Quote: Originally Posted by Sorrow Doesn't she have every right to have her opinions and say them, like everyone else? I don't have to agree on them, just as I don't have to agree with the opinions vented in the posts here. And I for sure am not going to say anyone is insane or an idiot because they have a different opinion from me.

Certainly she is completely entitled to her opinion, and how she states them. Which by the way, she has those freedoms because the US Military (both past and present), fought for her right to do so.

Her actions clearly indicate how she feels about some of her fellow Americans. Her son willingly enlisted in the military, and signed on the dotted line knowing full well what was possible. Just as my son, nephew, and countless others have done.

For her to desecrate her son's memory by supporting deserters, and protesting the efforts of our military, she in effect negates her son's death. She is saying he died for nothing. Very sad for her son's memory.

Quote: Originally Posted by Sorrow What reasons do you have to say some news are lies, while others are true?

There are reliable news and information resources in the US. Europe does not have the corner on the market for reliable reporting or information. People just have to be smart enough, and objective enough to know where to look.

Quote: Originally Posted by Sorrow If you go outside USA, you might find that people there say the direct opposite of what you think. Does that mean they are wrong, because they disagree with you?

No, as I said above. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. However, I think as an American speaking to an American issue, I have a better understanding than someone who does not, and has never lived in the US.

Quote: Originally Posted by Sorrow It is so easy to trashtalk people on the internet, especially people you don't know at all, and I had hoped the forums here could have been free from this. I guess I was wrong.

I do not consider any comments/opinions stated in this thread as 'trash talk'.

Everyday in the news, forums and papers I get to hear and read how very little European's think of Americans. But since I can appreciate that you are allowed your opinion I will not stop you or anyone else from speaking their mind, as long as it is done in a respectful manner that follows the forum rules. Even though I grow tired of Europeans bashing Americans.

Believing what the media tells you does tend to shade your opinions of us. Thinking President Bush is "fighting a war for oil" or our military are "using inhuman means to care for prisoners", or "Israel is evil" and any other number of things because the media says so. Aren't you guilty of the very thing you accuse us of?

Here is a link to a solder who lost both legs in the war, and see in the video what he did and had to say.

Quote: Soldier who lost both legs in Iraq describes honor of jogging with president

http://www.foxnews.com/

I am sorry to see what opinions you lay upon me. I thought you knew me better than that.

Wow. I see you can have your opinions, but no one else can? It is okay for you to make an off the cuff comment, but I state my views calmly and in a courteous manner and you get offeneded?

You are right I did think I knew you.

Quote: Originally Posted by Sorrow .....Does that mean they are wrong, because they disagree with you? It is so easy to trashtalk people on the internet, especially people you don't know at all.....

Now, that's just rich: you are guilty of the very same things that you accuse "you people" of. There's a word to describe this.....

hy·poc·ri·sy ( P ) Pronunciation Key (h-pkr-s)
n. pl. hy·poc·ri·sies

1. The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess; falseness.
2. An act or instance of such falseness

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hypocrisy

OK, stop with the gasoline on the campfire.

The subject matter is controversial, granted, and people worldwide will have at least some opinion on the matter. But our opinions should be limited to and reflect the subject matter, not our opinions of another person's opinions.

If we go into the whole ethics in journalism subject, and how it can be coloured by regionality, we could blow out just about everyone we want to bring to the site. We start dissecting each other's posts, and it stops being about the subject and it starts being a pis*ing contest.

Play nice.

Controversial or not, i'm pointing out that wholesale condemning people for something and then turning around and, in the same paragraph, doing the very same thing that you're complaining about is not only ridiculous, it completely undermines the argument.

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Quote: Originally Posted by Rob LOOK!!! BUNNIES!!!

Ohhhh Yassss!!!!