I have been helping a lot of people with Overclocking there AMD-64's for "Max Performance" lately, so I thought I would try to make a quick and easy "Guide" for helping my fellow Pimps find there Systems Speed Limits!

Running the highest possible FSB or "HTT" speeds is the key to getting the max performance from AMD-64, the days of 166FSB (DDR333) and 200FSB (DDR 400) being hot stuff are long gone!

Todays AMD 64's on socket 754 regularly now reach speeds of 300FSB (DDR 600) and some have reached over 350FSB!!!(DDR 700)
Recently, over 400FSB (DDR800) have been spotted on the new socket 939 DFI LP using memory dividers (Not using a 1 to1 Memory to CPU ratio) seeing as there isn't any "PC6000" memory (Or whatever it would be) available that can run those speeds yet!

I have had 2 generations of DFI Lan Party motherboards so far, and with some carefull tuning they are unmatched for "out of the Box" performance, I do use a non stock "Tweaked" Bios that was made by overclocking "Guru" Oscar Woo* to realy unleash the beast I will add though!
On DFI Lan Party (Socket 754) above 240FSB, SATA Channel 1 and 2 do not work. Above 240FSB, use channel 3 and 4!!
(*Oscar is an employee of DFI, and designer of the current 939 board, he used to work for Abit on the old OC King NF-7S)

I was able to reach useable speeds of DDR 520+ with the "Ultra B" N-Force2 chipset based motherboard on my "OLD" Athlon XP Mobile 2500+ and have reached DDR 600+speeds with my current N-Force 3-250 LP for AMD 64 Socket 754 using both a "SemPorn" 3100+ and more recently, using a AMD64 3200+

I all ready know from previous testing the max of the 3200+ CPU is less than 2.6GHZ with my current "Quiet" air cooling, and the max "1 to 1" speed for my memory is 300FSB. This motherboard has also been tested to over 320 FSB using memory dividers and Crucial Ballistix PC3200.

For today though, I will show you how to combine FSB, Multiplier, Memory Timings and Voltages to find your OC "Sweet Spot"

Not everyone has money for fancy new high $$ Samsung TCCD based memory that runs low latency at low FSB speeds of CAS 2-2-2-5 at PC3200/DDR400 speeds, but can also run decent timings of CAS 2.5-3-3-8 at PC4000/DDR500 speeds.
The legendary (But no longer available) BH-5* can also run DDR 500 Speeds or but there is always something you can do to maximize what you have!
(*They are relaunching BH-5 as "Winbond UTT" from TwinMoss I read recently)

Hardware:
AMD 64 3200+ (130NM Newcastle core)
DFI Lan Party (Socket 754)**
Zalman CPNS 7000ALCU w/AS-5
Antec"True Control" 550 watt PSU
*NOTE above 240FSB, use Chanell 3 or 4 and for NOT 1 and 2, they
Test Subject:
256MB Geil PC4400 (Rated at 2.5-6-6-11 at 263FSB and 3-6-6-11 at 277FSB )

Note: "Old Skewl" Geil PC4400 will NOT run at the prefered 1T timings on AMD-64

1t is Command Per Clock "Enabled" wich is Optimal, 2t is Command Per Clock "Disabled" wich results in poor benchmarking scores.

Even at the stock 200FSB this particular Geil memory will not boot up on AMD 64, it does work fine on Athlon XP at 1tT though.

Also, note that I am only using a SINGLE stick at 256MB, the more memory you have (512 or 1GB) the harder it is to overclock to higher FSB speeds and/or keep good "tight" timings.

Again, this is a GENERAL guide, aimed at AMD 64 users, the principals are the same for all CPU's though. Overclocking is risky, if you do not feel comfortable DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS.
PR or myself are not responsible for any damage, or loss of warranty


1. Drop your Multiplier at least 1 step below the stock one.

11x200=2.2GHZ (Stock)
10x200=2.0GHZ (Lowered multiplier)
9x200=1.8GHZ
8x200=1.6GHZ
7x200=1.4GHZ
6x200=1.2GHZ

2. Loosen your Memory Timings as "Loose" as you can within reason.

You can always tighten them up later for better performance, this is just for test purposes!

CAS 2-2-2-5 is "Tight" (Ultimate timings)
CAS 2.5-3-3-8 is "Medium" (Good comprimise)
CAS 3-4-4-10 is "Loose" (Recomended for test purposes)
CAS 3-5-5-12 is "Super Loose" (Not recommended for poor performance)

You will also need to set your LDT ratio or "HTT Speed" to a lower than stock setting, anything much over 1000MHZ can be unstable, settings that give a total between 800-1000 are best, and still gives good performance.

Here are the general ranges that they can go up to:
200FSBx5=1000HTT STOCK
250FSBx4=1000HTT
300FSBx3=900HTT


3. Increase Voltage to the CPU, Memory, and "Northbridge"Chipset

Warning: Increasing voltage can damage hardware if you go too far!
Also, remember to to disable/change any voltage alarm features on monitoring software.

a. Increase voltage to the CPU by .25v initially, load temps should be less than 50c idealy, don't go above 60c!

1.6V is stock for 2.2GHZ, here are the aproximate temps for my system using different voltages

2.3GHZ=1.625v (40c load temps) PASS
2.4GHZ=1.65v (45c load temps) PASS
2.45GHZ=1.675v (50c load temps) PASS
2.50GHZ=1.7v (55c load temps) PASS
2.55GHZ=1.775v (60c load temps)MARGINAL STABILTY
2.60GHZ=1.8v (60+C load temps) FAILED

b. Increase the NB voltage to 1.7v

The stock voltage is 1.6v, I used 1.7v up to 300FSB, rarely though does anything beyond 1.8v help without extra cooling, and even then it sometimes does not help.

c. Increase Memory voltage to 2.8v initially, most memory does not repond to more than 3v*!
*Other than BH-5 or OCZ VX, they can go to 3.2v+ with exra cooling fans blowing on them

2.7v is the stock rated voltage for GEIL PC4400 PLATINUM. This rating is using CAS 2.5-4-4-11@ 277MHZ from the manufacturer. It is also rated rated at 2.5-6-6-11 at 263MHZ (Found with CPUZ under the "SPD" tab)
Most memory can run tighter timings than it's factory ratings.

4. Detemine the max FSB of your memory

I detemined the max speed of my memory using a 6x multiplier

2.7v=270MHZ @CAS 3-4-4-8 PASS
2.8v=280MHZ @CAS 3-4-4-10 PASS
2.9v=290MHZ @CAS 3-4-4-10 PASS
3.0v=300MHZ @CAS 3-5-5-12 PASS
3.1v=305MHZ @CAS 3-6-6-12 PASS-Marginal stabilty
3.2v=310MHZ@ CAS 3-6-6-12 FAILED

The max usable settings for this memory is 6x300=1.8GHZ

5.Find the max "GHZ" speed of your CPU

I picked the 10x multiplier for this test

I start with large 10MHZ increments intialy, and then used a 5MHZ increment as I got close to the max speed.

10x200=2GHZ PASS
10x210=2.1GHZ PASS
10x220=2.2GHZ PASS
10x230=2.3GHZ PASS
10x240=2.4GHZ PASS
10x250=2.5GHZ PASS
10x255MHZ PASS (MARGINAL STABILITY)
10x260=2.6GHZ FAILED



6. Putting it all together

Next, by combining the information from above, I determined the best choice for me to get the closest to the memory's maximum of 300FSB, would be to use the 9x Multiplier, this would allow me to reach near the max stable speed of my CPU (Wich was 2530MHZ)

Using 10MHZ increases:

9x260=2340MHZ PASS
9x270=2430MHZ PASS
9x280=2520HMZ PASS
9x290=2610MHZ FAILED

Then again using 1MHZ increases
9x278=2502MHZ PASS
9x279=2511MHZ PASS
9x280=2520MHZ PASS
9x281=2529MHZ PASS (Marginal Stability)
9x282=2538MHZ PASS (Marginal Stability)
9x283=2547MHZ FAILED
















ADD: Below is a pic attached using Pharoh's OCZ PC4200 Platinum he just picked up, he asked me to test out for him this weekend during a visit!

Please note, I only had a short time to test it, I did not have time to optimise the memory timings, but as is, it blew my GEIL out of the water!

I was previously getting around 4.1MB/s in Si-Soft Sandra at 300FSB (DDR600) with my old style "Micron" based Geil PC4400 memory with the dreaded "2T" timings

His "TCCD" based OCZ PC4200 Platinum memory allowed me to use the much desired "1t" timings...and even though it was a huge 1GB total of memory vs. my puny 256MB, it was able to reach an astounding 4.5MB/s at the same DDR 600 (PC4800) speeds!

Attached Thumbnails

 

SWEET! this thread is sooo bookmarked. As one of the pimps that you've been helping, i just want to thank you (again), and tell you that this most excellent guide will keep me from peppering you with as many IM's as i have been - thank you for being patient
AWESOME guide, bro


You Have Bling!

That's a TOP notch write up Necro!
There is no wonder to why you have the flames badge over your Avatar.
Your on FIRE man!

Thanks for your help!

Thanks guys..enjoy, I have a little bonus for ya!

I reset the bios to Stock (Default) settings of 200x11 (2.2GHZ) for a "Baseline" and also 300x8 (2.4ghz) for some DDR 600 (PC4800) action!

The tests resullts are to compare with my final "Performance" settings in the first post at the top of this thread

Note: The Memory automatically defaulted to CAS 2.5-4-4-8, so that is what I used for the "Stock" tests.

No wonder I didn't see you in SSE all night (yes, I was there all night...... again)
That is one hella long post chock full of good info, enjoy some more blingage for that.

Quote: Originally Posted by godfoot No wonder I didn't see you in SSE all night (yes, I was there all night...... again) That is one hella long post chock full of good info, enjoy some more blingage for that.

OOPS! Dizaaam, forgot all about you Bro! I'm sorry!

Well, as you can see, this post had ended up going way beyond what my original "Quick Guide" intentions, I even added a second series of tests to help bring it all home for everyone. I think the final result was worth the sacrifice, I will try and catch you playin RTCW ET later on this week.

Maybe...now I can spend a little less time on MSN IM with people wanting help with there OC's, and have more time for kicking yo' ASS!

And FedEx is delivering me my 7700-AlCu today - looks like I'll have some stuff to do today

Hey Brother....
This is exzactly why I choose to come to Dertroit,
to hand build the ZenzoVap© just to bust the ORB WFO!
Excellent article...Sticky this one for sure...!Z

Excellent guide man. Now just to get a 64bit setup.

Wow!!! Awsome post brotha. Im sure to try some of this. Not the same Board but awsome Bench Marks.

Tnx for the List



MD

Any chance you can post the link for that BIOS? I'd like to give it a try when my new DFI NF3/250 shows up.

Thanks for the great post

Here are the DFI beta Bios's from there sight for NF3-250, just use the latest version

http://www.dfi.com.tw/Support/Downlo...FLAG=B&SITE=US

Here is a nice review of the different NF-4 Bios for DFI

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...2&page=1&pp=25

*IF YOU NEED A BETA BIOS FOR ANY DFI MOTHERBOARD, IT CAN BE FOUND IN THE LINK BELOW*

http://www.dfi.com.tw/Support/Downlo...FLAG=B&SITE=US

$SOLID$, at the risk of coming across as an OC retard (which is just as well...) how are you determining PASS/FAIL standards for the settings? The rest of the guide is very straight-forward, but I was hoping you could perhaps explain the criteria.

I've done some OC experimentation here and there, and sometimes I can get it to POST, but it drops short of booting into Windows, or it POSTs and boots, then dies/restarts, or it just won't POST/boot altogether.

It must be able to run benchmarks repeatedly for me to consider it a pass.

I don't run Prime 95 or anything for hours on end or any other torture tests though... I have found that I need to lower the OC a bit do be able to do that, but will generally play games at "Benchmark" settings.

Its a sticky, so I'll post up:

Need help with AMD64 overclock becuase..well....I havent done it before...read it, but never tweaked a real one.

3200 Winny Core
Asus A8V Deluxe

She residing at 2.0GHz with 1000HT on a 16x16 lane....Ill get more specs today.

Quote: Originally Posted by $SOLID$ Necro It must be able to run benchmarks repeatedly for me to consider it a pass. I don't run Prime 95 or anything for hours on end or any other torture tests though... I have found that I need to lower the OC a bit do be able to do that, but will generally play games at "Benchmark" settings.

Excellent thread $SOLID$ Necro...........and thumbs-up on the stability criteria.......

Awsome guide..I been OCin since the mid 90's but I doubt I could have explained it near as well.. I do have one question for all of you that are much more familiar the AMD64 chipset. I noticed you used a Newcastle I am considering a AMD Athlon 64 3700+ San Diego 1GHz FSB Socket 939 Processor for the increase FBS wise. The actual question is which of the current AMD64 cores OC's the best or does it make a difference?

MY RIG

Windows XP Pro w/SP2
P4 2.8C @ 3500MHz 1.775 volts
Zalman CNPS7000B-CU 92mm 2 Ball Cooling Fan/Heatsink 28C Idle 45C full load
Asus P4P800SE
1024Mbytes Gskill DDR-SDRAM PC4400 @ 1:1 FSB:RAM 250MHz 3-4-4-8
Leadtek WinFast PX6800 GT TDH
Diamond XtremeTV PVR600
Beyond TV 3.7.4
2 Western Digital Caviar SE WD1200JS 120GB SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive in Raid 0
Antech TruePower 550
CM Praetorian Case w/Nexus controller
4 mdmm thermaltake 80mm fans @ 55 CFM each 35C case

Quote: Awsome guide..I been OCin since the mid 90's but I doubt I could have explained it near as well.. I do have one question for all of you that are much more familiar the AMD64 chipset. I noticed you used a Newcastle I am considering a AMD Athlon 64 3700+ San Diego 1GHz FSB Socket 939 Processor for the increase FBS wise. The actual question is which of the current AMD64 cores OC's the best or does it make a difference? MY RIG P4 2.8C @ 3500MHz 1.775 volts

I'm sure you are plan on getting another motherboard too, you can't use that Intel board you have now!

I have not realy updated this thread in a while, It was done before I upgraded to Socket 939, so I will touch on a few points today in my Daily Disturbance post, I will add a link shortly.

All AMD 64CPU's, both socket 754 and 939 use the same "FSB" of 200, wich corresponds with the commonly seen Memory rating of DDR 400 (200FSB x2=400MHZ) that's what the "DOUBLE" part of DDR is for!

DDR500 (250FSB) is not "Stock" for AMD, and requires good a good OverClocking motherboard like a DFI Lan Party NF-4 in order to reach "Non-Stock" memory speeds, rasing the FSB is your only option for the "Regular" AMD-64's

All current regular socket 754 and 939 AMD 64's are "Multiplier Locked" at the stock multiplier (9x through 12x) you however, can lower it (8x and below) to increase Memory speed and performance.

Stock 3700+
200x11=2.2GHZ

Memory Overclocked, Stock 3700+speeds
220x10=2.2GHZ
244x9=2.2GHZ

CPU and Memory OverClocked to 4000+ speeds
218x11=2.4GHZ
or
240x10=2.4GHZ

CPU and Memory OverClocked to FX-55 speeds
236x11=2.6GHZ
or
260x10=2.6GHZ

The FX AMD-64 (Socket 939 only)series of CPU's are the only ones that allow you to "Raise" the multiplier above stock without changing the memory speed.

Example:

200x13=2.6GHZ (Stock FX-55)
200x14=2.8GHZ (Multiplier raised, now it's the same CPU speed as a stock FX-57)

I'm going to need this thread shortly, please update whatever you can.

That makes two of us...just gotta hook up the waterworks. Great work $Solid$.